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**Gary Naturist** · 07-20-2003, 04:33 AM

I've seen quite a few extremely fat people at nudist and clothing-optional venues, and I admire their willingness to bare all.

I have also seen a few very anorexic young women. Because they are completely naked, I can see more clearly the effects of anorexia, and it makes me very concerned.

Given the serious health implications of both morbid obesity and anorexia, I wonder if the nudist credo of body acceptance (acceptance of one's own body) is always a good thing.

Also, the idea of an anorexic person being a nudist seems to be a contradiction. As I understand anorexia, people with this condition have a distorted and negative image of their body, which doesn't equate with body acceptance.

What are the implications of body acceptance for people at both extremes of the weight scale?

Gary

**Rik** · 07-20-2003, 05:38 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Naturist:
[qb] Given the serious health implications of both morbid obesity and anorexia, I wonder if the nudist credo of body acceptance (acceptance of one's own body) is always a good thing. [/qb]

Of course it's a good thing. Body acceptance doesn't mean "I'm fat/thin and just don't care" but it does mean "I'm fat/thin and am relaxed with myself and others. I don't need to hide it but that doesn't necessarily mean I don't want to be more healthy by losing/gaining weight".

Hope this makes sense.

Rik

**Naturist Mark** · 07-20-2003, 06:22 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Naturist:
[qb] What are the implications of body acceptance for people at both extremes of the weight scale?

Gary [/qb]

Some people think that body acceptance means you don't care about your health - that it is giving up. I strongly disagree. Body acceptance means you remove the stumbling block of body shame that keeps you from appreciating the goodness of your body no matter what its current condition. It does not mean that you don't want to be as healthy and fit as you can be. Body Shame keeps people from becoming healthier, they are not fit enough to go to the beach or swimming pool, they look terrible in exercise clothes, they wouldn't be caught dead on a bicycle, etc. etc. They'll never be able to develop the body they 'need'. Body acceptance allows them to get on with their lives, including freeing them to become healthier and fitter.

The psychological condition that causes many forms of anorexia (and other disorders) is Body Dysmorphic Disorder, which is clearly a polar opposite of body acceptance. One should not simply assume nudism will cure BDD, although the practice of social nudism during childhood may very well counter the development of BDD. BDD is a very serious mental disorder that requires expert intervention, and even then a successful outcome is not guaranteed.

Body acceptance is not going to cure a severe mental illness, indeed people with anything but the mildest forms of BDD are unlikely to be able to acheive any sort of Body Acceptance.

Not all anorexia is caused by BDD, very often it can be a purely medical conditon. There are a few people who simply cannot accumulate more than the tiniest amount of body fat. Others may have disorders of the digestive system. Others may have cancer, or be cancer survivors. Body acceptance allows these people to live fuller lives.

BDD and other psychological conditions may also have a role in obesity for some people. Although the tide of medical opinion is rapidly turning against this view with respect to the majority of overweight people. Body acceptance for most overweight and obese people removes the stumbling block of Body Shame that keeps them from enjoying their lives to the fullest and from happily making choices that lead to better health. This is something I know very well. For a very long time I felt my life was on hold because I was too fat. I'm still a fat person, but since deliberately embracing body acceptance I've lost over 100 lbs. Increased physical activity and diet changes did the work, but body acceptance got me there.

I spent most of the day yesterday canuding. Today I'm about to go hiking in my favorite local wildness area. Even if I had never lost a single pound I would still be better off because I'm no longer 'on hold'.

-Mark

**Croydon** · 07-20-2003, 08:35 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Naturist:
[qb]
I have also seen a few very anorexic young women. Because they are completely naked, I can see more clearly the effects of anorexia, and it makes me very concerned.

Gary [/qb]

And how have you deemed these women as anorexic? Because they are very thin you have concluded that they are anorexic? Being very thin isn't an indication of eating disorder. There are PLENTY of women (and men) who look very thin and are NOT anorexic. Thinness run in my family among the women. Many female relatives are very very thin but are not anorexic. My mom is about 120lbs and 5'7 and is very thin but she eats like a horse. Please do not be so closed minded to deem someone anorexic because they are underweight.
Lastly, as someone who had an eating disorder, I would know what people with eating disorder would do and one thing they wouldn't do is be a nudist. Eating disorder is a psychological disorder. Bulemics and anorexics do not see their body the way everyone else does. A anorexic who is thin can look in the mirror and see nothing but fat while someone who isn't would look at them see an average body. Anorexics and bulemics are filled with shame and will go through great length to cover up. That being said, the last thing they would do is expose themselves to others.

The point to this post is this. Gary, don't be so quick to judge what you see esp. when you know NOTHING about eating disorders. These thin women you see are most likely very petite women who can not put weight on, no matter how much they wish they were bit bigger

**Gary Naturist** · 07-20-2003, 09:48 AM

Croydon, once again your reply is a real disincentive to discussion. You're talking at me, not with me. You come across in this and others of your posts (I reviewed some) as saying: "You're a jerk AND you're wrong AND I'm right AND here is the word of Croydon". I don't think that email communication is one of your strong points.

I'll limit myself to responding to a couple of points and then I'll do my best to ignore you in the future.

You said: "The point to this post is this. Gary, don't be so quick to judge what you see esp. when you know NOTHING about eating disorders."

How did you decide this based on my post? In fact, I have a daughter who had problems with anorexia when younger. She has worked through them and now has the condition under extremely good control. She won't call herself cured, because she (and others) believe that, as with alcoholism, one can never be cured. I learned something about eating disorders along the way.

You also said: "Lastly, as someone who had an eating disorder, I would know what people with eating disorder would do and one thing they wouldn't do is be a nudist."

I have assumed that you are a nudist. If so, then are you the exception to your own rule that people who had an eating disorder cannot be nudists?

My daughter is not a nudist at the moment, but I see promise for the future. She has no problems being nude (e.g. hot tubbing) with her boyfriend and isn't paranoid about others seeing her nude. While in the circumstances I won't explicitly encourage her to get more involved in nude recreation, I suspect that she will increase her nude activities on her own, possibly following the example of her dad.

Gary

**Doug H** · 07-20-2003, 10:28 AM

Croydon does have a point, and it IS relative to this discussion. I.e., just because a person appears to be underweight doesn't mean that they are unhealthy. I'm 5'10" and 130 lbs and very thin in appearence. Yes, I probably could gain 15-20lbs and still be healthy. Be healthier most likely. That said, I'm not this thin by choice. Believe me I eat (and eat, and eat.) I'm also 35 so don't think that youth plays a key here either. Some of us are built lighter than others, some of us are built heavier than others. That doesn't mean that there aren't unhealthy people at both ends of the spectrum; some are, I agree. It just means that not ALL people at the light or heavy ends of the spectrum are, by definition, unhealthy.

Doug H.

$Nude\'n\'happy$ · 07-20-2003, 10:46 PM

I agree with Doug H. as I also had a problem with gaining weight. When I graduated from high school, I weight a walopping 115 lbs and was 5' 10 1/2". I used to eat three footlong sub sandwiches for lunch. I was in the Air Force and was being looked at for possible discharge because they believed I was too thin, wieghed 125 lbs. The doctor put me on a 4000 calerie a day diet for 30 days. At the end of the 30 days I had dropped from 125 lbs down to 117 lbs. Next, the doctor told me to eat normally and just write down everything I ate. When he calculated my daily average for caleries, he found I was eating over 5000 caleries a day just to maintain my weight. At age 35, I only wieghed 140. I quit smoking at age 36 and gained only 10 lbs in the next 6 years. I am now 49 and still only weigh 160. I still eat quit a bit of food every day.

**Fresh Air** · 07-20-2003, 10:58 PM

Body acceptance might vary for individuals. For some, it is simply accepting their own body as natural and trusting others who share similar views to share in a beautiful setting.

Unfortunately, I think for others the acceptance part is not sought by themselves, but rather still sought in others. For some nudism can turn into a form of seeking acceptance by others. Baring all and trying to guage what others view them as. If this is the case, then it's obvious how anorexia can still be played into.

It's sad that not everyone can have healthy thoughts about themselves, but it is the world we live in. We should do what we can to make it a better one.

Fresh Air

**Croydon** · 07-21-2003, 05:52 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Naturist:
[qb] Croydon, once again your reply is a real disincentive to discussion. You're talking at me, not with me. You come across in this and others of your posts (I reviewed some) as saying: "You're a jerk AND you're wrong AND I'm right AND here is the word of Croydon". I don't think that email communication is one of your strong points. [/qb]

Never have I called anyone a jerk or anything of that sort. The farthest I have gone to name calling is calling YOU selfish and inconsiderate of other people (i.e your post about peeing and errection).
I don't also claim to be right but what I claim to be is knowledgable about something before I open my mouth to say something. If I don't know anything about a topic then I don't bother to say something. Perhaps you feel I come across as feeling right is probably because I know what I am talking about.

You also said: "Lastly, as someone who had an eating disorder, I would know what people with eating disorder would do and one thing they wouldn't do is be a nudist."

I have assumed that you are a nudist. If so, then are you the exception to your own rule that people who had an eating disorder cannot be nudists?
I think you didn't read my sentence thoroughly. I said "as someone who HAD an eating disorder" which means at one point I HAD an eating disorder and no longer have one. That being said, since I have changed my behavior and thinking, I am no longer bulemic and have adopted a healthy heating habit and work out twice a day. That being said, I do not feel insecure about my body or insecure about being nude.

**Croydon** · 07-21-2003, 05:53 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Doug H:
[qb] Croydon does have a point, and it IS relative to this discussion. I.e., just because a person appears to be underweight doesn't mean that they are unhealthy.
[/qb]

Thank You Doug for supporting my statement. See Gary, if I am talking "at you" then I guess Doug is also and everyone else who seem to think I have a point/

**florida-david** · 07-21-2003, 06:13 AM

here we go again.....

PLAY NICE YOU TWO

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