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Another example of the double standard between female and male nudes

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  • Another example of the double standard between female and male nudes

    http://www.thelocal.de/society/20110519-35129.html

  • #2
    Re: Another example of the double standard between female and male nudes

    It only underscores that prudes are everywhere.

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    • #3
      Re: Another example of the double standard between female and male nudes

      Alas, U.S. prudery is trickling into Germany. This is sad. Trouble is there are way more well-minded citizens than elected officials who act prudish, so why don't folks stand up to those official whackos more often and stand our ground more firmly?

      Whilst I would never, under these circumstances, wish any ill will upon any art gallery that was supposed to feature Penny's sculpture, I can readilly for see that the actions taken by authorities to censor Penny's exhibit will definitely have an adverse effect on the gallery's degree of popularity and overall ticket sales. That's a very hurtful thing.

      At the same time the censorship is such an unnecessary insult to the Evan and his talents for creating original art in sculpture.

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      • #4
        Re: Another example of the double standard between female and male nudes

        Alas, U.S. prudery is trickling into Germany.
        Europe has been moving in the prudish direction for several years, now, as I have pointed out many times on here. I've seen it in the UK, Scandinavia, Germany and Spain.

        This is sad.
        It's not sad - it doesn't affect what nudists can and can't do.

        Stu

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        • #5
          Re: Another example of the double standard between female and male nudes

          Originally posted by Stu2630 View Post
          Europe has been moving in the prudish direction for several years, now, as I have pointed out many times on here. I've seen it in the UK, Scandinavia, Germany and Spain.

          Stu
          YOUR STATEMENT IS NOT TRUE OVERALL AND BASED MORE UPON YOUR OWN WISHFUL THINKING. You again take ONE extremely limited example and attempt to create your own generalized conclusion (utterly false) and promote it as some kind of universal truth. Informed people will see right through you (again...........and again...........and again!!!) I will NOT debate you on this because it will be more of the same old story...........you will take things out of context and play the Stu merry go round game. Sorry , but we all have been through this game just too many times.

          http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,415516,00.html

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          • #6
            Re: Another example of the double standard between female and male nudes

            Thanks for the link. Gosh, that was almost five years ago! How things have changed in the former East Germany since unification. Even your article notes the start of this change: "The country is no longer quite the stitchless paradise it was then..-- and some parks have reined in nudity and confined it to well-defined, and often secluded, sections." - and it has progressed from there.

            I will NOT debate you on this
            OK. That's fine.

            I don't think there is anything to debate. I was quoting the earlier poster who said: "Alas, U.S. prudery is trickling into Germany." I agree. I live in Europe - I haven't lived anywhere outside of Europe for many decades and I routinely travel throughout Europe. I have my perceptions which concur with that view. If you don't wish to agree with them, that's your choice. We can agree to differ.

            Stu
            Last edited by Stu2630; 05-22-2011, 01:44 PM. Reason: added a sentence

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            • #7
              Re: Another example of the double standard between female and male nudes

              Originally posted by Stu2630 View Post
              - and it has progressed from there.
              That may be your perception Stu but I respectufully disagree. at least where Germany and Holland are concerned. I travel to these countries regularly and only see a growing interest in 'wellness' and saunas, spas etc. all of which are experienced in the nude in these countries, mostly men and women together and with no-one batting an eyelid because its just no big deal. (You would rather die than enter such a place I assume but that will never happen

              Only last month I visited the Elysium Centre for Wellbeing near Rotterdam and had to wait in a queue to get in and this was at 9.30 in the morning. Throughout the day the place was packed with hundreds of people all happily enjoying saunas and spas etc. in the all together. I got talking to a member of staff in the bar area about 'business' and he said they had never been busier - must be why they are looking to expand with yet more facilities.....

              Can't say I know much about the beaches/naturist clubs etc. but I assume you don't either, as you would never visit one.

              Begs the question where you form your ideas from that naturist/nude recreation is on the wane in Europe - how would you be able to tell??!!
              Last edited by Boreas; 05-22-2011, 05:12 PM. Reason: fixed format

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              • #8
                Re: Another example of the double standard between female and male nudes

                LondonJoe

                I travel to these countries regularly and only see a growing interest in 'wellness' and saunas, spas etc.
                I'm quite sure that's the case. Some Germans and Dutch people have no problem with mixed nudity - others are less comfortable with it. Also, I would bet people are prepared to travel some distance to get to these spas if that's what they enjoy doing.

                On the flip side, when I visit Holland and Germany, I never see public nudity - not in parks, by the sides of rivers or even beaches.

                I think what we are seeing is a polarisation - i.e. those who are OK with nude recreation are becoming both knowledgeable about where to go, and bold enough to go there. Those who are not simply steer clear of such places. That's a good thing, surely? Nudity is great for those who like it and are comfortable with it, but it's not to everyone's liking.

                Stu

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                • #9
                  Re: Another example of the double standard between female and male nudes


                  Stu:
                  "It's not sad - it doesn't affect what nudists can and can't do."

                  That you cannot understand what harm censorship and double standards do to a society is telling. This affects the basic freedom of freedom of expression, art itself. Nude art has been going on in Europe for centuries. The statue of David is one incredible example.

                  Bob S.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Another example of the double standard between female and male nudes

                    I have been reading these posts and the title of the thread and have been trying to figure out how to respond. The fact that female nudity is more accepted is not necessarily a good thing. I would argue that most of the time, female nudity is accepted because women have been sexualized and objectified. That is not a good reason for nudity.

                    Now, when it is not a big deal to see either male or female nudity, then there will be no double standard at any level.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Another example of the double standard between female and male nudes

                      Three main sources of propoganda that have served so dilligently over too many generations now and have preached and teached the concept that nudity is naughty are elected officials, clergy and psychologists. These three entities are integrated into one another and that's what has given the 'big three' such musclepower that dictates they will maintain fear and control over us. But as I said before, there are way more of us citizens than elected officials.

                      But since the teachings and preachings have extended throughout so many generations, it just has made the job of undoing what has been done and it will take awhile and it will take maybe generations but the reversal of this trend can indeed be achieved, and one of the first things that can be accomplished in the process is a better, healthier understanding of fine art, and the ability to discern more readilly bethween what is fine art and what is pornography. Penny produces the finest of art, that is for certain.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Another example of the double standard between female and male nudes

                        ...and, we need to stay on topic and not get off on a direction where we are arguing the pros and cons of nudity in public...again!

                        STAY ON TOPIC!

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                        • #13
                          Re: Another example of the double standard between female and male nudes

                          Why does this surprise anyone? Frontal nudity for women and men have been double standards for generations. On TV or the Movies if you show a flacid penis you are automatically put into an R rating, an erection will get an NC17 and therefore not shown. For women if you show a hairy crotch you can get an R rating or even sometimes a PG13, but if she is shaved than it jumps to a NC17. Yet, as pointed out, once the statue is marble or stone it seems to be OK to have a penis.

                          Kind of like the double standard of naked pictures in black and white are art while the same pose in color is porn.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Another example of the double standard between female and male nudes

                            BobS

                            That you cannot understand what harm censorship and double standards do to a society is telling. This affects the basic freedom of freedom of expression, art itself. Nude art has been going on in Europe for centuries. The statue of David is one incredible example.
                            I think the difference between the sexes relates to two, closely-linked things, namely (1) the fact that males have external and immediately visible sex organs and (2) the fact that the male organ can be used offensively (i.e. it can be seen as a weapon, used in rape etc, by males who are more powerful in all senses than females). So that's a cultural phenomenon.

                            As for nude art, I think we have to be a bit careful here. In southern Europe 500-years ago, cultural attitudes to nudity in general were very different to what they are now in the greater western world. I doubt that there was much of an aversion to nudity in Michelangelo's time - but times change and that is no longer the case. Remember, too, than many supposed "art works" were actually commissioned by rich men for their private collections because they were deemed risque and even mildly pornographic. Just because something was produced by a famous artist doesn't mean it is entirely non-sexual or that it was intended for general public viewing.

                            I'm not advocating either that artistic pieces should always obscure the sex organs of male exhibits, or that they should not be allowed to display such images and statues, but I would argue that such displays should carry a clear warning so that viewers in general, and parents and teachers in particular, can make informed choices.

                            Stu

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                            • #15
                              Re: Another example of the double standard between female and male nudes

                              Originally posted by Stu2630 View Post
                              ...I'm not advocating either that artistic pieces should always obscure the sex organs of male exhibits, or that they should not be allowed to display such images and statues, but I would argue that such displays should carry a clear warning so that viewers in general, and parents and teachers in particular, can make informed choices.
                              I was just trying to figure out how to implement such a warning in France, or Italy... Given the number of statues around every corner, perhaps a big sign at the airport or other entry point -- sort of to cover the whole country in one go.

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