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Attorney to sue if Daytona continues nudity appeal

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  • #16
    Oh God! That Was The Greatest Protest Ever!

    Here's an update in her own words.

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    • #17
      Huh?

      Originally posted by Stu2630 View Post
      Nothing. There is nothing inherently indecent about any part of the human body. It is the circumstances of their exposure that can be considered indecent.Stu
      Stu, do you ever go swimming and wear a bathing suit? You know the traditional "men's" bathing suit that leaves the chest bare? Did you know that not long ago that was considered indecent? Times change, and with them, what is considered decent. There are parts of the world where women will uncover their breasts in order to cover their ankles. It's all a matter of priorities...and they change too.

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      • #18
        Scubare

        You are quite right to point to the fact that what is considered indecent in one period or place may be considered perfectly acceptable in another. Our perceptions of what is and is not decent are not based upon cold logic: they are entirely cultural.

        That doesn't mean we should abandon the ones that we have, though. Some African tribes have no problem with public sex, but I don't want to replace my cultural attitudes to sex with theirs. Similarly, I don't want to replace my cultural attitudes to nudity with those of my forefathers, who thought a man exposing his chest in public was indecent, or with those of nudists, who don't regard any part of the human anatomy to be indecent when exposed in public.

        Stu

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        • #19
          brast as indecent?

          My belly is indecent, it kind hangs out more as i get older. So i was talking to the neighbor the other day with my white indecent belly hanging out, yuk!!

          Not that my white belly is relavant to this discussion (or is it?), but Breasts are not indecent, it is people's stupid thoughts that make them seem indecent. People need to mature enought to realize this, but some people (STU) just can't get over their personal hang-ups. I say to take all these people that think breasts are indecent and give them three free therapist sessions. if that does not "Cure" them, kick them off the island without their computers and make them live together in "prude-land" and leave the rest of us alone....

          Comment


          • #20
            Indecent interpretations

            From Dictionary.com:
            indecent

            adjective
            1. not in keeping with accepted standards of what is right or proper in polite society; "was buried with indecent haste"; "indecorous behavior"; "language unbecoming to a lady"; "unseemly to use profanity"; "moved to curb their untoward ribaldry"
            2. offensive to good taste especially in sexual matters; "an earthy but not indecent story"; "an indecent gesture" [ant: decent]
            3. offending against sexual mores in conduct or appearance; "a bathing suit considered indecent by local standards"


            I also wanted to write I do not think it is possible for a "thing" such as a bare breast to be indecent, but I went to check the definition of the word and examples of its use first.

            IMHO: "Simple" exposure of the genitals, buttocks or breast is not an indecent thing, it is the interpretation of that exposure in context and with deference to the viewer that categorizes it as such. Nudity in a setting where it is expected is therefore more likely to be considered "normal" or "acceptable" so the only thing necessary to improve its interpretation is a simple sign.

            "Nudity is permitted in this area."
            (or something like, "Nudity may be encountered between this sign and the next one in 1,000 ft.")

            The astonished response of a portion on the public would likely last for awhile and then quickly fade as people became accustomed to seeing others naked.

            Big deal!
            Would people leave their jobs to go down and spectate on such as thing? No.
            Would people cancel doctor appointments? Oil changes? Vacation to Florida plans? Unlikely.

            All of the hype surrounding the novelty of "public indecency" is fueled by people imagining the worst case scenario, by peoples' reluctance and intolerance towards change and by poor social conditioning and their own "dirty" imaginations. Otherwise people would PHYSICALLY not be able to watch the tribespeople on cable making reality television for us "civilized folks". If the moment we saw naked body parts we became physically ill, vomited or passed out (fainted dead away) - or experienced some predictable physical reaction - then I would agree with the idea of a "built-in" or biologically-based inherent dislike/distaste of nudity.

            If this were true the human race would be utterly doomed!
            We would not be able to see each other naked, ever!
            Not coming out of the shower.
            Not in the doctor's examination room.
            And certainly not in any form of printed media (magazine) or artwork.

            We would be unable to procreate due to misguided mate selection and incorrect matching of gene-types and the entire process of "adaptive evolution" would be reduced to a snail's pace.

            So what is indecent about all that?
            Narrow-mindedness and our own ability to imagine how simply easy it would be to DECLARE nudity acceptable at any venue and under any circumstances. I suspect it would be less painful then declaring non-discrimination against Americans of African decent was in the latter half of the last century; simply because we are evolved and many, many people LOVE to look at naked bodies (yep, even the less attractive ones).

            Heck, frankly I am surprised many localities don't license "pay per view" boardwalks along public nude beaches because of the guaranteed income they could expect to receive from them! There would be plenty of people willing to pay to see the "Naked Humans on Display" and the nudists would not even need to be doing anything remotely considered indecent. We all love to watch people living their lives and willingly wait for something out of the ordinary to happen.

            G'night all.
            Last edited by Centauri4; 03-16-2008, 10:17 PM. Reason: (add a concluding paragraph)

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            • #21
              Florida-David

              Breasts are not indecent, it is people's stupid thoughts that make them seem indecent. People need to mature enought to realize this,
              Of course breasts can be indecent. What is and is not indecent is determined by the prevailing cultural attitudes and, in most modern western societies, a woman exposing her bare breasts in public is CONSIDERED indecent and therefore it IS indecent.

              but some people (STU) just can't get over their personal hang-ups. I say to take all these people that think breasts are indecent and give them three free therapist sessions. if that does not "Cure" them, kick them off the island without their computers and make them live together in "prude-land" and leave the rest of us alone....
              What an intolerant attitude from a representative of a minority group which is demanding tolerance for itself. Sensibilities are not hang-ups and don't need therapy. And let's be honest - practically the whole world is "prude-land" so far as nudism is concerned, we textiles comprise a massive majority but we don't force you to undergo therapy or kick you out of your environment.

              With the exception of a few gawkers or trouble-makers, textiles don't go to nudist beaches, communities or clubs so they do leave you alone.

              Stu

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Stu2630 View Post
                Of course breasts can be indecent. What is and is not indecent is determined by the prevailing cultural attitudes and, in most modern western societies, a woman exposing her bare breasts in public is CONSIDERED indecent and therefore it IS indecent.
                Wrong.

                Remember this type of statement has brought forth calls for your psychological evaluation from every other poster.
                By the by, don't you think there might be something to them when every single poster at one time or another has questioned your mental state?!

                And let's be honest - practically the whole world is "prude-land" so far as nudism is concerned, we textiles comprise a massive majority ...
                Wrong again.
                Nudism as an organized life philosophy or as an everyday matter of course of living is far more widespread than prudism with the "massive majority" of the world's population either living nude, comfortable being nude and/or around those who are nude, or just don't give a flying rat's arse one way or the other.

                Also, if you do not like questions about your mental state why do you keep insisting on providing ample evidence for questioning?:confused:

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                • #23
                  I have to chime in here. I know my views have already been expressed......female breasts are not indecent. Period.

                  I take offence at the idea that someone will tell me what to do with my breasts. It is supposed to be fashionable to wear bras that seem more like armour than clothing. Those are the obscenities. Not only are we supposed to wear these things, we are actually supposed to hide the fact that we have nipples. Now more and more women feel the need to augment their breasts so they look like cantaloupes. That is obscene. All of these things teach women that their bodies are not god enough as they are. I am tired of that.

                  I think societies that "allow" women to bare their breasts anywhere it is appropriate for men are much more evolved and mature. I certainly hope the puritanical American and British attitudes do not spread. I am glad to hear that Oz has made the changes it has. May we all be more like Oz. Enough of this body hatred.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Stu2630 View Post
                    we textiles comprise a massive majority but we don't force you to undergo therapy or kick you out of your environment.

                    Stu
                    Did you really say this? Then, why are you on this forum "forcing" members of a nudists' forum YOUR views? If you are such a "massive majority" why stay here?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Boreas View Post
                      I think societies that "allow" women to bare their breasts anywhere it is appropriate for men are much more evolved and mature. I certainly hope the puritanical American and British attitudes do not spread. I am glad to hear that Oz has made the changes it has. May we all be more like Oz. Enough of this body hatred.

                      Well stated!!!!!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Stu2630
                        Of course breasts can be indecent. What is and is not indecent is determined by the prevailing cultural attitudes and, in most modern western societies, a woman exposing her bare breasts in public is CONSIDERED indecent and therefore it IS indecent.
                        Wrong! Very flawed logic. It is ONLY considered indecent. And that is only in certain spots. It is considered perfectly acceptable in many places. It is time that those places be expanded to anywhere that is is okay for men to be topfree.....beaches, backyards, front yards, at picnics, etc.........

                        Gwen Jacobs challenged this logic in Guelph Ontario in about 1996. There were protests in Toronto to support her. (perhaps including her, Guelph and Toronto are not far from each other) Another woman (can't remember her name, I was in Toronto at the time) did the same in BC around the same time. The Ontario courts declared that it was not indecent. Ultimately, the Supreme Court of Canada agreed, and stated that breasts in and of themselves are not sexual. They also confirmed that it was legal for a woman to be topfree anywhere it is legal/acceptable for men. Therefore, at least in theory, it is legal for a woman to be topfree in Canada, anywhere it is okay for a man to be topfree. If the Supreme Court of Canada declares that topfreedom is not indecent for women in Canada, then that works for me. I suspect the same challenge could work in Britain.

                        Check out www.tera.ca
                        Last edited by Boreas; 03-17-2008, 07:25 AM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by nacktman View Post
                          Wrong.

                          Also, if you do not like questions about your mental state why do you keep insisting on providing ample evidence for questioning?:confused:

                          Good question!!

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                          • #28
                            nacktman

                            By the by, don't you think there might be something to them when every single poster at one time or another has questioned your mental state?!
                            That's a ridiculous statement. Most posters on here have not questioned my mental state. I have noticed that the ones who have tend to be the less intellectual contributors to this forum - people who lack the capacity to challenge my views using reason, so they resort to attacking my mental state.

                            with the "massive majority" of the world's population either living nude, comfortable being nude and/or around those who are nude, or just don't give a flying rat's arse one way or the other.
                            You come out with nonsense like that and then you question MY mental state?

                            The "massive majority" of the world's population live in societies in which nakedness is at the very least restricted (like most Far Eastern nations, North America and Europe) or regarded as totally unacceptable (like virtually all Muslim countries). In any case, I was speaking about the societies in which the contributors of this board live in, not some native tribesmen in Borneo or the Amazon basin.

                            Wrong! Very flawed logic. It is ONLY considered indecent. And that is only in certain spots. It is considered perfectly acceptable in many places.
                            You have inadvertently proved my point. In those places where toplessness is considered indecent, it is, by definition, indecent. In those places where it is widely accepted as not indecent, it is not indecent. What is and is not indecent is entirely determined by prevailing values and culture.

                            It is time that those places be expanded to anywhere that is is okay for men to be topfree.....beaches, backyards, front yards, at picnics, etc.........
                            You are entitled to hold that opinion, but I disagree with it and I would contest any attempt to change the law in that direction.

                            The Ontario courts declared that it was not indecent. Ultimately, the Supreme Court of Canada agreed, and stated that breasts in and of themselves are not sexual.
                            They were making a legal decision based upon their opinion. Thankfully, other courts in other countries would take a different, and in my view, more correct view that bare breasts in public ARE indecent.

                            Stu

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Stu2630
                              Quote:
                              Wrong! Very flawed logic. It is ONLY considered indecent. And that is only in certain spots. It is considered perfectly acceptable in many places.

                              You have inadvertently proved my point. In those places where toplessness is considered indecent, it is, by definition, indecent. In those places where it is widely accepted as not indecent, it is not indecent. What is and is not indecent is entirely determined by prevailing values and culture.
                              No, my point was that the use of "considered". That is not fact, nor law. As you know, many prevailing thoughts can and have been changed.

                              Originally posted by Stu2630
                              Quote:
                              It is time that those places be expanded to anywhere that is is okay for men to be topfree.....beaches, backyards, front yards, at picnics, etc.........

                              You are entitled to hold that opinion, but I disagree with it and I would contest any attempt to change the law in that direction.


                              Quote:
                              The Ontario courts declared that it was not indecent. Ultimately, the Supreme Court of Canada agreed, and stated that breasts in and of themselves are not sexual.

                              They were making a legal decision based upon their opinion. Thankfully, other courts in other countries would take a different, and in my view, more correct view that bare breasts in public ARE indecent.
                              Well, the law of Canada and many other places backs my opinion.

                              Declaring women's breasts as "indecent" is a paternalistic view that continues to sexualize women unecessarily and dictates to women what they are to do. That is just plain wrong.

                              I can respect your desire to keep your "private parts" private. I can even accept some of your arguments. This one rankles me.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                My, my, my, Stu, what an ego you have!

                                The most intelligent among us on this forum DO NOT ENGAGE in debate with you because you just keep responding with the same responses over and over and over. Nothing to debate

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