Religion and Clothing are both invented by humanity

[freecospirit]

I describe myself as an agnostic in that unlike pure humanists I cannot be convinced that no god exists. If there is a deity (supreme being) then I feel that all religions by whatever name essentially relate to different interpretations of the same god. Some religions glorify nudity, some accept nudity as part of nature and some believe that nudity in sinful. Different cultures have put their own interpretation onto the matter of nudity for many diverse reasons. Customs with consequential laws have also distorted attitudes within society. When we ask ourselves "Why shouldn't we be allowed to go clothes free anywhere and any time?" There is no rationale which you shouldn't it is simply that over the years unfettered public nudity has largely become unacceptable.

The conclusion is that nudity is secular, totally separate from any religious connection. As such nudity cannot be judged logically improper and it should be a matter of personal choice just as choosing to believe in a faith is a matter of personal choice.

[RalphVa]

Re: Religion and Clothing are both invented by humanity

Only problem is that a lot of people in religions that started either in Europe or NA think that public nudity is a sin. It's exceedingly difficult to shift them off this belief.

I'm fighting that battle now. Think I'm going to end up being shunned by my local congregation. It all depends on what the preacher cooks up in response to my advocating nudity on Facebook. Think one problem is that his wife is one of the parties who have complained against me (to him and to others, not directly to me, which is a sin on her part).

Ralph
The naked gardener
God's original intent

[jasenj]

Re: Religion and Clothing are both invented by humanity

Only problem is that a lot of people in religions that started either in Europe or NA think that public nudity is a sin. It's exceedingly difficult to shift them off this belief.

Agreed.

I'm fighting that battle now. Think I'm going to end up being shunned by my local congregation. It all depends on what the preacher cooks up in response to my advocating nudity on Facebook. Think one problem is that his wife is one of the parties who have complained against me (to him and to others, not directly to me, which is a sin on her part).

I sympathize with you. I went through this at a previous church. It was a very painful but growing experience.

Here's a few verses that helped me through it.
Romans 12-15 - this is a very good passage where Paul lays out how to handle differences of opinion on moral matters.

15:1-2 Now we who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those without strength and not just please ourselves. Each of us is to please his neighbor for his good, to his edification

12:17-18 Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men. If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.

When I went through my experience I had to hold in my mind that these were very sincere people doing what they believed the Bible teaches. I let it go and moved on.

I learned that many Christians - especially those in leadership - believe social nudity is a sin, and all your logic and reasoning isn't going to change their mind. It is better to just keep quiet and focus on the areas where you do have commonality.

Rom 14:12-14 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this -not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way. I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself ; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Remember, that it is God whom you serve, and to whom you will give an account. Don't worry about how others treat you.

- Jasen.

[BinCo]

Re: Religion and Clothing are both invented by humanity

Only problem is that a lot of people in religions that started either in Europe or NA think that public nudity is a sin. It's exceedingly difficult to shift them off this belief.

I'm fighting that battle now. Think I'm going to end up being shunned by my local congregation. It all depends on what the preacher cooks up in response to my advocating nudity on Facebook. Think one problem is that his wife is one of the parties who have complained against me (to him and to others, not directly to me, which is a sin on her part).

Ralph
The naked gardener
God's original intent

That is a bummer, but not surprising. I am not religious but have found that my wife's group of Wiccans and Pagans are much more accepting than any Christian group I have ever encountered.

[freecospirit]

Re: Religion and Clothing are both invented by humanity

I take on board all the comments and note with interest that Wiccan/Paganism are known to have include nudity in some parts of their rituals. I cannot comment on Asian religions and in Asian countries generally nudity is usually more restricted than in Europe or the Americas. In regard to Christianity while nudity is not part of any ritual there is nothing in the scriptures which says that nudity is wrong and we are encouraged to believe that humans are created in God's image and therefore the human body is to be revered rather than regarded as something to be hidden. Believing that it is logical for Christian naturists is an appropriate setting to worship as naturists; your birthday suit is generally your best suit.

Another belief, I have which is not religious at all, is that being a naturist encourages me to take better care of my body and keep it looking as good as I can for as long as I can. This makes me feel better, more healthy and fitter. Few of us have perfect bodies and we are supposed to be non-judgemental but I am very judgemental about my own appearance and cannot help but feel saddened when I see people, clothed or nude, who have not looked after themselves. Nature gave most of us a good start, the real sin is in the way many of us fail to cherish what nature gave us. One of our marriage vows says "With my body I thee worship"; implied in that is an understanding to maintain that body as fit for purpose.

The conflict arises when we are naked where society judges inappropriate and society will never judge nudity to be generally acceptable. The best we can hope for is a gradual acceptance of nudity as tolerated in more places. Naturists need to be pragmatic and not expect society to change for them quickly. Though there are a lot of us we are and always will be a small if growing minority in society. While I enjoy being nude when it is warm enough I do not feel comfortable being considered out of place nude in a particular setting. When clothing is optional, most of us are clothing optionalists as opposed to strict nudists, I will generally choose nudity for myself. There will always be those for whom nudity is never an option but as long as they don't mind others being nude that is not a problem. More non-nudists are willing just to let us be on quieter beaches and in some park areas and the authorities tend to turn a blind eye a lot of the time. Hopefully overtime more textiles will be tempted to try naturism and we all know that once that first foray has taken place the majority of those who try it will continue.

[NAaT]

Re: Religion and Clothing are both invented by humanity

First of all, I am a Christian Naturist.

I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. (Romans 14:14 ESV)

Also...

Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. (Romans 14:20 ESV)

Romans 14:14-23 is a Good read on this topic.

I believe that the Apostle Paul is telling us that even though we have freedom in Christ, others may not understand our actions through their views and beliefs. In that context, if someone is offended by something we do or eat, etc., we should respect that person's beliefs and refrain form those things in his/her presence. The purpose is to not alienate that person so that we may continue to have a relationship with that person and hopefully demonstrate the love of Christ.

Based on this example, nudity may be ok by our beliefs, but in order to be peaceful and understanding of our neighbors, we should be mindful of them and not seek to offend. We have a better chance of introducing our friends to naturism if we demonstrate civility and compassion instead of anger and dissent. This is true with any human interaction for everyone on this planet.

I would be very content if the law would allow me to be nude anywhere on my property whether or not it was in view of anyone else. I think that I would not seek to push the boundaries further if that were the case. However, I respect my neighbors and their beliefs, whether or not I know their beliefs, and restrict my nudity to indoors or my secluded back yard. One day, society may change in regards to acceptance of nudity and allow us to be nude in more places.

I do believe that if historically nude venues are suddenly restricted by authorities that we should show our opposition and disapproval in a peaceful and respectful manner.

-NAaT

[RalphVa]

Re: Religion and Clothing are both invented by humanity

Thanks for the thoughts. I and my wife have given up on the our congregation. She was sick and out for a whole month or more and no one checked up on her. Then not long after that, I was back and forth to the hospital and out for at least a month. No one cared to check up on me. Finally, one of our ex elders saw me in the ER while he was working as a security guard at the hospital. Then I got some responses from some. These experiences now coupled with my "coming out" as a nudist on facebook and refuting some of their scriptures has turned them off. Don't think we're going back. Will go elsewhere. I dropped my Facebook page but have created another "incognito" page to allow me to interface with the folks on naturist-christian, more populated there on Facebook than their main web site.

[ibrahim]

Re: Religion and Clothing are both invented by humanity

I agree with Freecospirit. Although naturists preach body acceptance, this does not mean that we shouldn't take care of our bodies - it's great to look good naked. And exercising naked is one of the greatest pleasures.

[usuallylurk]

Re: Religion and Clothing are both invented by humanity

Only problem is that a lot of people in religions that started either in Europe or NA think that public nudity is a sin. It's exceedingly difficult to shift them off this belief.

Why bother? But take note - Europe and North America are the areas where nudism is tolerated most. And in Christian nations. And no major denomination has ever condemned the practice of social nudism, as far as I know.

I'm fighting that battle now. Think I'm going to end up being shunned by my local congregation. It all depends on what the preacher cooks up in response to my advocating nudity on Facebook. Think one problem is that his wife is one of the parties who have complained against me (to him and to others, not directly to me, which is a sin on her part).

Perhaps you might find a less-judgmental congregation to join.

Ironically - the nudist facility I visit - Cedar Waters Village - has its own chapel and non-denominational Christian services in season. As do other nudist parks.

Now, not being an expert on Scripture, I don't go in looking for passages to justify my activity. "After the fact", you can ALWAYS cite Scripture to justify anything, and that's not right.

I used to participate in a forum (Yahoo group) called the Reluctant Partner Community. Now, my partner (wife) is NOT reluctant... but I had been invited in by the then-moderator, to offer a viewpoint from the "inside" - the real world of social nudism.

I recall one gentleman in there - whose wife would not participate (common situation). And one day, his wife asked him to sit and discuss nudism with some of her church friends.

I advised him, yeah, do that. BUT -- also ask your wife to sit down with some NUDIST friends - even in a clothed environment - to discuss nudism. Would she do that? If not, then she is trying to round up a posse to try to "cure you" of your "nudist sickness".

I had another friend - he and his wife both attended CWV for a number of years. They separated (they're together again) but the nudism was an issue, she didn't want to do it anymore. He agreed to go to counseling (non-religious) which failed because the counselor tried to treat his nudism as an illness to be cured.

Not cool. Ralph, you might want to find a more accepting congregation -- and -- not bring your nudism into it, unless it is a nudist congregation.

I want to add - there is a Reluctant Partner Community on Yahoo Groups -- I think it's still going, but the original moderator has withdrawn -- I left when he left, there wasn't anything more I could add or contribute, anyway.

[findingcoolwater]

nudity was also invented by humans...conflict arises through content.

[NowaNudysta]

Apparently you haven't read the Bible. Religion wasn't invented by humanity, nor was the need for clothing.

[Mosquito_Bait]

I describe myself as an agnostic in that unlike pure humanists I cannot be convinced that no god exists. If there is a deity (supreme being) then I feel that all religions by whatever name essentially relate to different interpretations of the same god. Some religions glorify nudity, some accept nudity as part of nature and some believe that nudity in sinful. Different cultures have put their own interpretation onto the matter of nudity for many diverse reasons. Customs with consequential laws have also distorted attitudes within society. When we ask ourselves "Why shouldn't we be allowed to go clothes free anywhere and any time?" There is no rationale which you shouldn't it is simply that over the years unfettered public nudity has largely become unacceptable.

The conclusion is that nudity is secular, totally separate from any religious connection. As such nudity cannot be judged logically improper and it should be a matter of personal choice just as choosing to believe in a faith is a matter of personal choice.

Here are definitions for atheist and agnostic from Merriam Webster.

Agnostic: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable.

Atheist: a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods.

The problem I see with being agnostic is that you are already damned for failing to affirmatively believe in God. If you have adopted agnosticism as a middle ground to minimize the offense you might cause to religious people, it won't work. God and most of his followers demand unwavering allegiance.

[Bob S.]

"Religion wasn't invented by humanity, nor was the need for clothing."

Nowa, you are right about the need for clothing. That was caused by the need for protection. Religion, however, was created by humanity. Religion is a way to organize a set of beliefs. Let's take Judaism .Because G*d only spoke with certain individuals regarding how things should be, the need to create a religion around those commandments was necessary.

Bob S.

[Mosquito_Bait]

For anyone in need of deprogramming.