Insanity in our nation!

[nimrod]

I was not going to post this here because of the topic, then I thought that this is the kind of thinking that we as nudist/naturist are up against.

I just saw a news report on a Christian Conseratives campain to put Christ back into Christmas. After presure from this group Macy's ads and in-store promotions no longer say Happy Holidays, but now read Merry Christmas. After hundreds of phone calls, Lowes changed the name of their holiday trees to Christmass Trees. They were even calling for a boucot of Target for claims of banning the Salvation Army, and bannishing the word Christmas from their stores. The group said that stores should proudly play up Christmas even if it alianates non-christains. Don Wildmon from the American Family Association said, "Tough luck, this is a mostly christain nation.". Jerry Falwell said, "The particular celebration that the tree represents is not Rahmadon, it is not a Jewish holiday it is Christmas, the birthday of Christ.".

This is the insanity that is in our nation, it is these attitudes that we as a people need to fight(for lack of a better word) against, not just nudist/naturist, but all the sane people of our nation. Jerry needs to pull his head out and do some research, then he would realize that bringing a tree into your home comes from Pagan beliefs, not because Christ was born, and that all of the christain holidays intergrated Pagan beliefs, because it was easier to convert the "heathans" with intergration instead of bullying.

[nimrod]

I was not going to post this here because of the topic, then I thought that this is the kind of thinking that we as nudist/naturist are up against.

I just saw a news report on a Christian Conseratives campain to put Christ back into Christmas. After presure from this group Macy's ads and in-store promotions no longer say Happy Holidays, but now read Merry Christmas. After hundreds of phone calls, Lowes changed the name of their holiday trees to Christmass Trees. They were even calling for a boucot of Target for claims of banning the Salvation Army, and bannishing the word Christmas from their stores. The group said that stores should proudly play up Christmas even if it alianates non-christains. Don Wildmon from the American Family Association said, "Tough luck, this is a mostly christain nation.". Jerry Falwell said, "The particular celebration that the tree represents is not Rahmadon, it is not a Jewish holiday it is Christmas, the birthday of Christ.".

This is the insanity that is in our nation, it is these attitudes that we as a people need to fight(for lack of a better word) against, not just nudist/naturist, but all the sane people of our nation. Jerry needs to pull his head out and do some research, then he would realize that bringing a tree into your home comes from Pagan beliefs, not because Christ was born, and that all of the christain holidays intergrated Pagan beliefs, because it was easier to convert the "heathans" with intergration instead of bullying.

[Kari P]

A good part of the problem comes from your language, where Christmas has Christ. In my language there isn't such relation in the corresponding words. Otherwise, the -mas can be seen as an innocent holiday and celebration of the season that has a connection to Christianity only to those who want it.

[usmc1]

See, the problem is that these people are undeducated literalists--they do not know that decorating a tree is a pagan practice. They do not know that December 25 is no more Christ's birthday than its Rudolph's. They just don't know much of anything but what has been copied down for them to think.

Here's a spot of humor to bring into perspective how their habit of following their copied down "given and revealed" knowledge works against them.

A young monk arrives at the monastery. He is assigned to helping the other monks in copying the old canons and laws of the church by hand. He notices, however, that all of the monks are copying from copies, not from the original manuscript.

So, the new monk goes to the head abbot to question this, pointing out that if someone made even a small error in the first copy, it would never be picked up. In fact, that error would be continued in all of the subsequent copies.

The head monk says, "We have been copying from the copies for centuries, but you make a good point, my son." So, he goes down into the dark caves... ...underneath the monastery where the original manuscripts are held as archives in a locked vault that hasn't been opened for hundreds of years. Hours go by and nobody sees the old abbot.

So, the young monk gets worried and goes down to look for him. He sees him banging his head against the wall, and wailing, "We forgot the "R", we forgot the "R". His forehead is all bloody and bruised and he is crying uncontrollably.

The young monk asks the old abbot, "What's wrong, father?" With a choking voice, the old abbot replies, "The word was celebrate."

But their efforts to insert their miserable and frightened of the dark superstitions on that which is secular is truly repugnant and unAmerican and not one bit funny.

(hateful comment removed)

Happy holidays y'awl and have a wonderful winter solstice.

[hm0504]

Jeremiah 10:2-4:

quote:

2 This is what the LORD says:
"Do not learn the ways of the nations
or be terrified by signs in the sky,
though the nations are terrified by them.

3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest,
and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.

4 They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so it will not totter.

More at
http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_tree.htm

[Rabid_Clam]

In this natiom, United States of America, we have the freedom of expression. Therefore any store can sell Holiday stuff or Christmas stuff where they also have the freedom of having or not having religion. Those who force others to view things by their own stand point are on the same damn platform as the Taliban!

We need to be tolerant of others. In my humble opinion, this whold christmas thing is totally against my religious feelings and I am basically a christian! We have tarnished the blessed event with saturation commercialization of this religious event so that the true reason for celebrating is lost. Shame!

I do not have a christmas tree nor do I send cards. I send a card any time during the year and actually write a letter in it also, not just a sterile signature. I remember family and friends all year long, not just at the obligatory time of year.

[Guest]

quote:

I just saw a news report on a Christian Conseratives campain to put Christ back into Christmas.

And that excludes anyone that celebrates one of the other holidays that happen around the same time. Why should stores piss off so many customers when all should be welcome?

The holidays belong to everyone, not just the fundies.

[KirkOntario]

It is a Christmas tree and the season is Christmas. Why not call it what it is? It is the celebration of the birth of Christ not the birth of Zeus.

[usmc1]

A quick google search for the birthdate of Jesus will take one to what some scholars have learned--it's closer to Ground Hog day than Christmas--February 1.

Here's the Wiccan take on the holiday

Yule
or winter solstice happens near December 21, which is the longest darkest night of the year. The dark of Winter is safe like my bedcovers at night. Dark whispers of a Mother's love caress me. In the darkness of the Mother's womb, the void I am safe, sustained, at peace. and can move inward, into my own dark self, looking, learning, purifying. I can cleanse myself of all that blocks me from being born new with the rising new solstice sun when the sun king is born, with promises for the Spring ahead.

Our Christian friends are often quite surprised at how enthusiastically we Pagans celebrate the 'Christmas' season. Even though we prefer to use the word 'Yule', and our celebrations may peak a few days BEFORE the 25th, we nonetheless follow many of the traditional customs of the season: decorated trees, carolling, presents, Yule logs, and mistletoe. We might even go so far as putting up a 'Nativity set', though for us the three central characters are likely to be interpreted as Mother Nature,Father Time, and the Baby Sun-God. None of this will come as a surprise to anyone who knows the true history of the holiday, of course.

In fact, if truth be known, the holiday of Christmas has always been more Pagan than Christian, with it's associations of Nordic divination, Celtic fertility rites, and Roman Mithraism. That is why both Martin Luther and John Calvin abhorred it, why the Puritans refused to acknowledge it, much less celebrate it (to them, no day of the year could be more holy than the Sabbath), and why it was even made ILLEGAL in Boston! The holiday was already too closely associated with the birth of older Pagan gods and heroes. And many
of them (like Oedipus, Theseus, Hercules, Perseus, Jason, Dionysus, Apollo, Mithra, Horus and even Arthur) possessed a narrative of birth, death, and resurrection that was uncomfortably close to that of Jesus. And to make matters worse, many of them pre-dated the Christian Savior.

Happy yule and may the goddess bless you.

[NudeTopher]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by usmc1:
See, the problem is that these people are undeducated literalists--they do not know that decorating a tree is a pagan practice....

Don't you know that spreading the truth makes you a heritic?

"We forgot the "R", we forgot the "R". His forehead is all bloody and bruised and he is crying uncontrollably.

The young monk asks the old abbot, "What's wrong, father?" With a choking voice, the old abbot replies, "The word was celebrate."ROFLMAO

[nacktman]

Here is another bit of news to the "put christ back in christmas" lunatics.

Christ's mass was just a very minor poorly attended liturgy within the catholic cult until a couple of hundred years ago.

It was just the first of a series of masses during a fortnight of the church attempting to pervert the celebrations of the Celtic people during the solistice festivals.

The really "big" day was Michaelmas or Michael's mass falling twelve days after Christ's mass...does any one recall the number twelve...it is in a popular song I believe.

The only reason for this fortnight of masses was to subvert and pervert the true religion of the people...everything about and celebrated during this time is from the true religion only the names have been changed to protect the guilty.

JESUS IS NOT THE REASON FOR THE SEASON so get over it.

The United States was not founded as a christian nation and is not or never will be.

It is a nation founded on Deism with deliberate exculsion of formal churchery such formality has ever eroded and destroyed all it has come in contact with just as acid does.

[NudeTopher]

quote:

Originally posted by KirkOntario:
It is a Christmas tree and the season is Christmas. Why not call it what it is? It is the celebration of the birth of Christ not the birth of Zeus.

You may wish to consult your calander. Hanukah and Christmas are exacty the same day this year. Are you saying that as all of the Jewish people and their freinds go holiday shopping they should be greeted with "Merry Christmas" because that makes some Christians feel better? The celebration of Hanukah predates the birth of Christ by quite some time.

[KirkOntario]

quote:

Originally posted by usmc1:
A quick google search for the birthdate of Jesus will take one to what some scholars have learned--it's closer to Ground Hog day than Christmas--February 1.

The point is that it doesn't mattter what it WAS. It is Christmas not saturnalia and it the celebration of the the birth of Christ. That is what it IS. The Queen of England celebrates her birthday on a different day from that actual day she was born. It is still the birthday celebration of the Queen, the day on which people celebrate the Queen's birthday. To suggest it is not is frankly absurd.

[KirkOntario]

quote:

Originally posted by NudeTopher (christopher):

quote:

Originally posted by KirkOntario:
It is a Christmas tree and the season is Christmas. Why not call it what it is? It is the celebration of the birth of Christ not the birth of Zeus.

You may wish to consult your calander. Hanukah and Christmas are exacty the same day this year. Are you saying that as all of the Jewish people and their freinds go holiday shopping they should be greeted with "Merry Christmas" because that makes some Christians feel better? The celebration of Hanukah predates the birth of Christ by quite some time.

On a year in which Hannukah and Christas fall on the same day it is both Hannukah AND Christmas and out of courtesy for our Jewish friends you would wish them a Happy Hannukah.

Edited for personal attack. - UW

[KirkOntario]

quote:

Originally posted by nacktman:
The only reason for this fortnight of masses was to subvert and pervert the true religion of the people...everything about and celebrated during this time is from the true religion only the names have been changed to protect the guilty.

JESUS IS NOT THE REASON FOR THE SEASON so get over it.

It is a nation founded on Deism with deliberate exculsion of formal churchery such formality has ever eroded and destroyed all it has come in contact with just as acid does.

Oh so paganism is the only TRUE religion? Interesting indeed.