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  • General Tolerance

    (Was "Atheists, Mormons & Nudity...")

    Wow, Reading the original post, and the items following, WOW says a lot.
    Mike might very well be young. Making the same observation that someone else made, his post is difficult to read. But I did! And to Mike's credit, he had a frustration he needed to express.
    Unfortunately, there are certain people in this world who seem to subsribe to the notion "My mind is made up. Don't confuse me with the facts." Mike's father does seem to fall into that category through what appears to be a double-standard.
    In simplest terms, an enlightend person is able to come to a beleif that is not easily reached. That is that sometimes, there is no such thing as right and wrong. Sometimes, it is possible that "we" are both right. Religion is high on that route. This is how we should be able to accept Mormons, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and Pagans all equally. Unfortunately, that acceptance is less than perfect.
    And this is a rant I have said before: This is the true meaning of what September 11th was about. From both sides! America in general HAS, or IS PERCEIVED AS HAVING an arrogance that we are high and mighty above all others. Best evidenced by the fact that the UN and many individual member nations did not want to invade Iraq.
    Amazing how Congress voted it's own power about declaring war away from themselves. But almost all voted for invading Iraq. It was supposed to be quick and lif would be "wonderful." America would kick-***, take names, and make the Middle-East jst like us... We never did find WMD. Suddenly Saddam is caught and perception is different. Public polls show Bush's approval higher. World opinion is changing. Right in time for the holidays. Right in time to throw a definite curve-ball at the Democratic contendors before primaries. Conveniently just after Bush made his great visit to the troups at thanksgiving. A conspiracy theorist would have good fuel with that, but it is no different than "the grassy knoll." You can't prove it.
    Is there a religious belief structure that is right for all? no. Is there an answer that is right for all? no. Many a pagan will tell you variations of the following: We are all equally part of a greater divine. We are all here to learn. Some do so "better" than others. How you find a connection to that divinity is not as important as what you get from it. That is true spirituality. Religions on the other hand, are man-made (sidenote: not frequently women made. HMMMMM...butI actually wrote man made as the "generic.") Religions have rules to them for creating order. Religions have practices, ideas, traditions, etc that come from the culture at the time. Religions have a power structure to them.
    But we are all working towards a great divine. And then there are atheists. Is there nothing else? Is there no life after this? is there no re-incarnation? Is there no Heaven, Hell, Summerlands, or anything else? Are atheists right, and anyone spiritual is wrong? Or are they just different beings who don't have a link to something higher? All rhetorical questions that we can each have theories on, and proof that we believe. But they feel the same way.
    The important thing to realize is that all religious belief structures have some semblance of common ideas we are taught early on: Love one another, respect others, be aware that our actions have consequences; and as such-we may have to pay a price. Christianity has the 10 commandments. Pagans have the rule of 3 and the rede: "Do as thou will, an it harm none."
    And so then we go to nudism. I think that almost all here are nudists. I know Stu seems to be NOT. I wonder why Stu is a member here, but yet he challenges us daily. And we do become stronger because of the challenge. So more pwer to him. Yet, the nudists here will essentially agree on all of the following, in no particular order: There is a definite enjoyment obtained from being nude. There is nothing wrong with it. Thereis nothing sexual about it. And yet, most people don't understand it. Because somewhere down the line, "we" have been taught that it is wrong to show our bodies to another.
    OK. Time to go back off my soap-box. Time to get dressed and go celebrate a Christian holiday with my family. Time to temporarily put my pentacle where those who don't understand won't have fuel for an arguement. And I will dream about the day I am on a plane away from the Western NY cold and off to the Midwinter Gathering in sunny Loxahatchie, Florida. To a place where there is more of that acceptance and understanding.

  • #2
    (Was "Atheists, Mormons & Nudity...")

    Wow, Reading the original post, and the items following, WOW says a lot.
    Mike might very well be young. Making the same observation that someone else made, his post is difficult to read. But I did! And to Mike's credit, he had a frustration he needed to express.
    Unfortunately, there are certain people in this world who seem to subsribe to the notion "My mind is made up. Don't confuse me with the facts." Mike's father does seem to fall into that category through what appears to be a double-standard.
    In simplest terms, an enlightend person is able to come to a beleif that is not easily reached. That is that sometimes, there is no such thing as right and wrong. Sometimes, it is possible that "we" are both right. Religion is high on that route. This is how we should be able to accept Mormons, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and Pagans all equally. Unfortunately, that acceptance is less than perfect.
    And this is a rant I have said before: This is the true meaning of what September 11th was about. From both sides! America in general HAS, or IS PERCEIVED AS HAVING an arrogance that we are high and mighty above all others. Best evidenced by the fact that the UN and many individual member nations did not want to invade Iraq.
    Amazing how Congress voted it's own power about declaring war away from themselves. But almost all voted for invading Iraq. It was supposed to be quick and lif would be "wonderful." America would kick-***, take names, and make the Middle-East jst like us... We never did find WMD. Suddenly Saddam is caught and perception is different. Public polls show Bush's approval higher. World opinion is changing. Right in time for the holidays. Right in time to throw a definite curve-ball at the Democratic contendors before primaries. Conveniently just after Bush made his great visit to the troups at thanksgiving. A conspiracy theorist would have good fuel with that, but it is no different than "the grassy knoll." You can't prove it.
    Is there a religious belief structure that is right for all? no. Is there an answer that is right for all? no. Many a pagan will tell you variations of the following: We are all equally part of a greater divine. We are all here to learn. Some do so "better" than others. How you find a connection to that divinity is not as important as what you get from it. That is true spirituality. Religions on the other hand, are man-made (sidenote: not frequently women made. HMMMMM...butI actually wrote man made as the "generic.") Religions have rules to them for creating order. Religions have practices, ideas, traditions, etc that come from the culture at the time. Religions have a power structure to them.
    But we are all working towards a great divine. And then there are atheists. Is there nothing else? Is there no life after this? is there no re-incarnation? Is there no Heaven, Hell, Summerlands, or anything else? Are atheists right, and anyone spiritual is wrong? Or are they just different beings who don't have a link to something higher? All rhetorical questions that we can each have theories on, and proof that we believe. But they feel the same way.
    The important thing to realize is that all religious belief structures have some semblance of common ideas we are taught early on: Love one another, respect others, be aware that our actions have consequences; and as such-we may have to pay a price. Christianity has the 10 commandments. Pagans have the rule of 3 and the rede: "Do as thou will, an it harm none."
    And so then we go to nudism. I think that almost all here are nudists. I know Stu seems to be NOT. I wonder why Stu is a member here, but yet he challenges us daily. And we do become stronger because of the challenge. So more pwer to him. Yet, the nudists here will essentially agree on all of the following, in no particular order: There is a definite enjoyment obtained from being nude. There is nothing wrong with it. Thereis nothing sexual about it. And yet, most people don't understand it. Because somewhere down the line, "we" have been taught that it is wrong to show our bodies to another.
    OK. Time to go back off my soap-box. Time to get dressed and go celebrate a Christian holiday with my family. Time to temporarily put my pentacle where those who don't understand won't have fuel for an arguement. And I will dream about the day I am on a plane away from the Western NY cold and off to the Midwinter Gathering in sunny Loxahatchie, Florida. To a place where there is more of that acceptance and understanding.

    Comment


    • #3
      You are going to the MidWinter?

      Me too!

      It will be nice to meet some new Net friends.


      As for Mike, I understand him just fine. He's got a lot of growing up to do but please, let's not make determinations on how clearly you need to write to participate here(not directed at you personally but all those complaining). I do agree that he needs to stop with the 8 mile posts though.

      We have others that don't speak English as their first language like johny. Should we be on them about comprehension? I think not.

      Participation should be about enthusiasum and not clarity.

      Comment


      • #4
        On the subject of religion I think that while there are certainly similarities between all major religions there are also significant differences. I am a Christian and as such believe that Jesus is the Messiah. Muslims believe that Mohammad was a prophet of God. I happen not to. This difference seems to me to be a significant one given how it impacts the way Muslims and Christians live their lives. Hopefully the fairly common belief that it is a good idea to love and respect your fellow "man" will lead people of all religions to respect each other despite thier differences.

        Comment


        • #5
          As most long-time posters probably know, I am a Christian, and as such have some very specific beliefs about the Universe's Creator (primarily, that He exists). But many people of intelligence and good will believe otherwise. Am I to doubt their intelligence or good will simply because they don't believe as I do about the Creator? That's not the way of the God Who is love.

          Also, as a Christian, I feel that He will eventually show Himself to humankind in a way that no one can fail to see. But that's His job, not mine. Mine is to seek the truth, or the Truth, and perhaps to share what I have found in my search. Arrogance has no part of this search, since Scripture itself tells me that in God's eyes I am no better or worse than any other person.

          One of the things I have found is that, although the objects of people's faith differ widely--who could confuse Buddha with Jesus or Krishna with Mohammed?--the behaviors that each system teaches are right are strikingly similar. Love. Peace. Compassion for the oppressed. Acceptance, first of the brothers and sisters in your faith, then eventually of every person. Fidelity and self-control, especially in sexual matters. Constant effort to improve yourself and your behavior. "Against such there is no law." (Galatians 5:23) And such teachings leave little room for pride, arrogance, or violence against non-believers.

          I cannot speak with any authority about other religions, but any evil or oppression done in the name of Christianity comes not from following the Bible's teachings, but from not following them.

          Comment


          • #6
            I dont get why some people are so intent on bashing other people because of their religion, especially when the person getting bashed hasnt said anything about the other person's religion or tried to convert them in anyway. I think people should let people beleive in whatever they want to and just leave them alone, its none of their business. Half the time I feel about my dad even know he keeps blabbing about god and how I beleive in god in a sort of way, sometimes I just feel saying that god if he is upset at me, he oughta "file a complainT!" or otherwise theres nothing to worry about. Half the stuff my dad told me not to do, ive done in one way or another and nothing too terrible has happened to me, so I really dont see any big deal, if god is pmsed at me, he'll let me know, otherwise just let me be and go on with your lives people. Thats just the way I feel.

            Comment


            • #7
              MikeJB I think that the issues you raise are worth considering. I don't think that I could ever answer the questions you raised but I felt compelled to respond anyway. I am curious as to whether or not you have asked God about the issues you raised in your post. I hope my comments are helpful. If not feel free to ignore them.

              Comment


              • #8
                Even if I did ask him. He probably wouldnt tell me or tell me in some weird way that I wouldnt find out the answer until after I didnt need it anymore. I think god oughta come down here and make half these stuck up conservatives make public nudity legal so we can just go out and enjoy ourselves and stop bickering over whats right and wrong about it and keep complaining about how much we want it to be free n all. He should also educate them a bit between the differences of nudity and sex.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Oki'm a devoted Christian, and if someone ask me why I believe then I'll tell then or ask me why/how I'm happy even though I'm a disable person then I will tell them. But I will not force my relationship I have with God on to them. I'm just there to give them the love that God given me through others.

                  Now some one said why don't God come down and show him self and teach and tell us these thing on nudity or whatever. Well believe it or not he did, he took part of him self and became human. From birth to when he was cutifiy, look at the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The rest of the new testiment where his follower took on his teaching. Anyways the bible does explain alot of thing it just can't be read like any other book, but it not up to us christian to force the bible in their faces, I think if they really wants to know they will find out or ask us to comfort them in any ways. Ok I'll roll of the stand now. God Blees

                  Comment

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