Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Re-examining the choice of Eve

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Vinsect
    replied
    Your welcome codylechien. I'm glad someone else apreciates those ideas too. They're pretty meaningful to me. The Bible is full of that stuff. A lot of it is in the imagery and symbols. Lol, I should probably read it more often.

    Leave a comment:


  • codylechien
    replied
    Very well put, Vinsect. I like your analogies and balancing of concepts ie fruit of the tree/fruit of the woman; don't live in Eden/Eden lives in me. Interest, thought provoking ideas. Thanks for the submission and sharing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vinsect
    replied
    There have been some really thought-provoking ideas on this thread. I haven’t read each of them yet but I’m workin on it. For what it’s worth, I’ll offer my take on the subject too and I don’t mean this to be argumentative. Just sharing what I believe and lean towards.

    First of all, I believe that humans were created first and foremost for intimate relationship with God. Furthermore that we were made to collectively make up a type of bride for God The Son. That is our prime directive. Angels already existed to serve God and to some extent have a relationship with God but humans were created as beings in God’s own image for relationship.
    Now, love would be meaningless if it were only an automatic conditioned response. It only has value when it is sincere. That sincerity is only possible where there is free will, that we are in this relationship by our own choice. Many people believe in a control-freak type of God. I believe that our free will is even more important to God than it is even to us. The type of love that has any value would be impossible without it.
    So in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve had a face to face relationship with God. There was no shame or separation. Life was easy. There weren’t many rules. Paradise was home and they were Nudists. So, what’s the deal with those trees? They provided an alternative. They represented separation from God, a divorce of the relationship as they knew it. There were no written contracts then. The act of eating from those trees was in essence a way of filing divorce from God. The value of that is that even if the fruit was never touched, the option was there. That made real love possible. Adam and Eve would have been mere robots without those trees.
    People often debate whether the story of Adam and Eve is literal or allegorical. Personally, my gut instinct is that it was a literal story which was also layered with allegorical meaning. Much of the bible is that way. Things that really happened foreshadowed and symbolized things to come and spiritual principles. Over my life, I’ve heard many people suggest that ‘the forbidden fruit’ or ‘original sin’ is a metaphor for sex. While that’s a popular concept, God said “Be fruitful and multiply.”
    Now, I also don’t buy into the idea that we were meant to eat of the fruit all along. Nonetheless, God still had a contingency plan. Even after we were separated from God, He still wanted us. Before we were born into a state of union with Him having the option to leave. Ever since then, we have been born into a state of separation with the option of coming into relationship with Him.
    Separation came when a woman took fruit from a tree. In the exact inverse of that action, as in the untying of a knot, reunion with God came in the form of Fruit of woman being placed back on a tree. That is Jesus, the fruit of a woman (hence the virgin birth and lack of human father) was placed on a tree (the cross.) When this happened, the veil in the Temple which partitioned off The Holy of Holies where the Spirit of God dwelled was torn open. The separation was over. The new Covenant (or contract) began. God could now make His Temple in human hearts instead of a building. That above all else is the way in which we are created in His image, that are hearts were designed to be His dwelling place.
    The very last thing that was said before Adam and Eve ate was that they were naked and they felt no shame. Now, He bore my shame and I run around naked again. Also, while I don’t live in Eden, Eden lives in me now.
    For those of you who like to debate, I can’t prove any of this. What’s proof to me is that I know what it means that God made His Temple in my heart and made it like Eden.

    Leave a comment:


  • Naturist Mark
    replied
    Little off topic but
    Brainwashing happens in extreme left and right.

    Well no, the classic brainwashers were the Chinese (and North Koreans) during the Korean War (er ... conflict). I consider both regimes to be extremely conservative. Communism might be 'leftist' but it is not liberal in any manner.

    Today brainwashing is most commonly seen in the convert/victims of small religious sects, ironically the 'deprogramming' that was once used to treat such victims is itself closely based on brainwashing techniques. I don't think you can meaningfully characterize such sects as "left" or "right".

    However, a general characteristic of liberalism is the acceptance of diverse views, as opposed to conservatism which tends to enforce uniformity of views. You can't brainwash into diversity.

    -Mark

    Leave a comment:


  • Sauna
    replied
    My point was how close the extremists are in the way of thinking and taking others into attention

    Leave a comment:


  • Boreas
    replied
    Please note that the operative word in my sentence was "extreme" not "right". I am not so naive as to think that only the extreme right has the monopoly on brainwashing. It is just as others have said, they are those most vocal these days, and squash any kind of debate as quick as possible. They also have a habit of saying the same lines. That is not, in my opinion, dialogue or free-thinking.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sauna
    replied
    Little off topic but
    Brainwashing happens in extreme left and right. It is very funny how close thy are each other in the way of thinking and taking others into attention.

    Leave a comment:


  • Naturist Mark
    replied
    In the extreme right!!!??? Surely you don't think brainwashing occurs only on the right, do you?
    That's pretty much the definition isn't it? The extreme right are the enemies of critical reasoned thinking - prefering dictating the views of their lessors - by force if necessary - or convenient. The 'wooly' left espouse an acceptance of all views and all diversity. Neither extreme makes much sense.

    -Mark

    Leave a comment:


  • missouriboy
    replied
    In the extreme right!!!??? Surely you don't think brainwashing occurs only on the right, do you? I know you just can't be that naive.

    Leave a comment:


  • Boreas
    replied
    Wow Mark, that is interesting. I have always thought there was a certain amount of brainwashing in the extreme right.

    Leave a comment:


  • Naturist Mark
    replied
    A bit off the current meandering of the topic, but of interest to those concerned with the hijacking of the church by the religious right.

    State of Belief (mp3)
    • This Sunday, May 21, on the national radio show State of Belief, Rev. Welton Gaddy exposes the coordinated effort to undermine mainline Protestantism -- and render America's largest denominations incapable of standing up to right wing politics. more[/list]

      -Mark

    Leave a comment:


  • hm0504
    replied
    Originally posted by Still_Boreas:
    Happy Victoria Day to you too. It is a nice sunny day here, unlike the southern half of BC. We will be going for a drive to the town an hour down the road for dinner and for me to get a couple of signatures for a report I just finished.

    Been fairly lazy most of the weekend.
    To celebrate the Queen's birthday, I went birdwatching (I think She's into that) -- had great luck spotting at quite close range a Pileated Woodpecker [1] and three large Great-Horned Owls (one adult, two (large) young) that had already attracted a crowd of other birdwatchers (dedicated ones, unlike me).

    [1] http://www.nhptv.org/Natureworks/pileatedwoodpecker.htm

    Leave a comment:


  • Boreas
    replied
    Happy Victoria Day to you too. It is a nice sunny day here, unlike the southern half of BC. We will be going for a drive to the town an hour down the road for dinner and for me to get a couple of signatures for a report I just finished.

    Been fairly lazy most of the weekend.

    Leave a comment:


  • hm0504
    replied
    Originally posted by Still_Boreas:
    Hi Albinus, I haven't had a chance yet. I will though. It looks interesting.
    Let me know if you have any technical problems.

    Happy Victoria Day!

    Leave a comment:


  • Boreas
    replied
    Hi Albinus, I haven't had a chance yet. I will though. It looks interesting.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X