The Confessional

[Rex]

This is my first venture into this section of the forum.
I prefer not to get heavy about religion, one reason being that any suggestion that something could have been handled in a better way, is often seen as an unwarranted attack on someone's beliefs.
But something I saw on a TV current affairs program whilst I was having my evening meal, has troubled me enough that I feel I must say something.
The story was about an Australian Catholic priest, who is currently doing 6 years in jail for child sex abuse, a situation all too common in many parts of the world.
Apparently, he confessed his on-going sins 1500 [yes, 1500!] times to various priests and bishops, and yet his abuse was allowed to go on.
An anti child abuse campaigner is calling for Australian State and Federal govts to enact laws which would make it illegal for priests hearing confessions to not notify the police, if they heard about child abuse. As could be expected, a Catholic Church spokesman said that the Confessional would remain confidential. I understand that a priest breaking this rule, could be excommunicated, a threat which would be laughable to me, but which, I understand, could be intolerably devastating to a devout Catholic.
Child abuse within the Catholic Church is all too common, and yet remains largely unaddressed.
On the other hand, uninformed opinions that abuse could conceivably occur at, for instance, nudist youth camps, are pursued by sanctimonious politicians.
Some years ago, a journalist friend did an in-depth series of newspaper articles into child sex abuse within the Catholic Church. I asked him how the paedophile priests could live with the belief that they would, one day, have to account for what they had done in life, and he told me that they believed that, once they had confessed, they were forgiven.
I would suggest that, if the Confessional were no longer guaranteed confidential, if the paedophile priests confessed, they would be brought to justice, and their illegal activities would cease. If they did not confess, they would suffer unbelievable mental agony, and that would, hopefully, stop them from re-offending, a win-win situation.
Any comments?

[Rex]

This is my first venture into this section of the forum.
I prefer not to get heavy about religion, one reason being that any suggestion that something could have been handled in a better way, is often seen as an unwarranted attack on someone's beliefs.
But something I saw on a TV current affairs program whilst I was having my evening meal, has troubled me enough that I feel I must say something.
The story was about an Australian Catholic priest, who is currently doing 6 years in jail for child sex abuse, a situation all too common in many parts of the world.
Apparently, he confessed his on-going sins 1500 [yes, 1500!] times to various priests and bishops, and yet his abuse was allowed to go on.
An anti child abuse campaigner is calling for Australian State and Federal govts to enact laws which would make it illegal for priests hearing confessions to not notify the police, if they heard about child abuse. As could be expected, a Catholic Church spokesman said that the Confessional would remain confidential. I understand that a priest breaking this rule, could be excommunicated, a threat which would be laughable to me, but which, I understand, could be intolerably devastating to a devout Catholic.
Child abuse within the Catholic Church is all too common, and yet remains largely unaddressed.
On the other hand, uninformed opinions that abuse could conceivably occur at, for instance, nudist youth camps, are pursued by sanctimonious politicians.
Some years ago, a journalist friend did an in-depth series of newspaper articles into child sex abuse within the Catholic Church. I asked him how the paedophile priests could live with the belief that they would, one day, have to account for what they had done in life, and he told me that they believed that, once they had confessed, they were forgiven.
I would suggest that, if the Confessional were no longer guaranteed confidential, if the paedophile priests confessed, they would be brought to justice, and their illegal activities would cease. If they did not confess, they would suffer unbelievable mental agony, and that would, hopefully, stop them from re-offending, a win-win situation.
Any comments?

[Guest]

"If they did not confess, they would suffer unbelievable mental agony, and that would, hopefully, stop them from re-offending, a win-win situation.
Any comments?"

Authorities say that the majority of people who think about children sexually never actually carry it out in real life. I hope that is true.

I knew a pedophile once, knew him very well. Besides having this terrible affliction he was also a chronic liar and it went as deep as lying to himself. He was not able to admit that he even did these things much less deal with stopping the behavior.

I would imagine that the great majority of pedophiles aren't catholic to begin with so just using the minority that are, I see this happening. They can't admit the truth to themselves which means they won't stop offending.

I know the man I knew is either still out there offending or in prison again because he was caught. Even though he went through an extensive rehab program I know he didn't learn from it. He could not while other mental issues were standing in the way of his progress. There is no mental agony when mental illness prevents you from feeling it.

[Guest]

NO one should be able to clear his conscience of a crime by confessing it to a priest.

[Outlaw]

Being a life-long Catholic, (though no longer a practicing Catholic) I remember being told that even though one would confess confess the sin of a major crime, it would not be forgiven until it was admitted to the appropriate authorities. Perhaps this isn't the case anymore, but I would hope that it is!

Big Mac

[Burntbuns]

The anomymous "Confessional" has almost gone away. Today, priests meet with those seeking reconciliation. At some point, the confessional protection ends. For a priest going to confession, the removing of the stole (the purple ribbon kind vestment worn by the priest hearing the confession. Once the sacramental side of confession is over, the two may discuss the matter, advice can be given, action can be started. Most non-Catholics and even some Catholics do not understand what is protected and what is not.

The sacrament of reconciliation is a powerful force. It is what enables Catholics to come clean. Some of the coming clean may include getting help and treatment.

The confusion in the Church until recently what that the priest hearing the confession did not know what to say to the person seeking sacramental aid.

[pahjo2]

the former governer of oklahoma, frank keating, was appointed by the catholic church to over see the reports of child abuse by the catholic priests. he said there was so much cover up and refusal to open the records that he resigned saying that he couldn't do the job properly with out cooperation.
does this sound like they want want to get to the bottom of the problem or are they above the law because the are clergymen? maybe the latter is why the former doesn't apply. i believe it is meant to be by nature or by god to be attracted to the opposite sex and when that is forbidden then things take place when they shouldn't.
if priests were allowed to marry then maybe our children would be safe from the very person they are taught to trust the most.

[stevenf64]

quote:

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Originally posted by Rex:
[qb]
Apparently, he confessed his on-going sins 1500 [yes, 1500!] times to various priests and bishops, and yet his abuse was allowed to go on.

Child abuse within the Catholic Church is all too common, and yet remains largely unaddressed.

I asked him how the paedophile priests could live with the belief that they would, one day, have to account for what they had done in life, and he told me that they believed that, once they had confessed, they were forgiven.

Any comments? [/qb]

---

REX
Out of order but here goes....
YES there is to much (one case is too much) child abuse in the church. I BELIEVE this is a result of a priest not being allowed to marry, which the bible does not say, its a rule the church invented..
Second, Lots of people believe that confession of sins, this is just NOT TRUE, you must confess (no one says to man, the bible says to god), You must STOP doing what you are doing, and You MUST take the punishment that is required by the law....
As for one day standing before their maker and being accountable, They are trying to fool themselves.
steve
PS my opinion is anyone who would do that to a child is not a religious person, anyone can call themselves anything that doesnt make it true...
steve

[Jochanaan]

Blaming the problem of child sexual abuse on priests not being allowed to marry is not dealing with the real problem. I have lived a celibate life for almost a decade now, and I have never sexually abused anyone, so I know it's possible.

The real issue is power. Many priests, bishops, etc., can handle the power they have over people with grace and restraint, for the benefit of those who come to them. But some get addicted to the power, and may even believe that because they are "God's servants" they can do no wrong. Some Protestant ministers believe similar things, and there have been cases of abuse there too.

And certain Catholic authorities have shown by their actions that they care more about protecting the guilty priests than protecting their parishioners from them. This is intolerable. Since the Catholic Church claims to have the Truth, they should always strive to find out the truth and do the right thing.

[TXK NUDE]

I can tell you from my personal experience that in the US it is the law for ministers and priests to report any confession of a crime or the intent to commit a crime. Failure to do so can lead to a charge of aiding and abetting a criminal. When I was a minister, I had to alert all counselees to this rule and ask them if I needed to contact a local police officer before counselling began.

[gamblefish]

It is no suprise that the Catholic Church feels it is above the law of man when it puts itself above the Word of God.

I can maybe understand the weakness of an individual in commiting these abuses. But when someone in authority finds out and lets it go on for any length of time, this is a real atrocity.

[wannabenaked2001]

A pedophile is a pedophile! Allowing priests to marry would not change this. (But I do think priests should be allowed to marry.)

In the past, a Catholic family was expected to send at least one of their children into the church as a nun or a priest. This often resulted in the less functional/intellegent/attractive child entering the church, pretty much against their will. (Yes, the Catholic Church has a very sorted past.) Additionally, many of these priests and nuns were sent where ever they were needed, to do what ever was needed. (I remember having a nun as a teacher in grade school, and while it was not clear to me at the time, I now realize that she probably did not like children.)

The practice of "giving" a child to the church is no longer done (at least not in the US). I hope the church will do the right thing and do some much needed "house cleaning".

[Bob S.]

There is a difference between a simple confession "Father, I have used my Lord' name in vain." and a serious confession "Father, I have had sex with a child." I will not pretend to understand the religious aspect of this but using the human aspect, it is a no-brainer. If a priest hears of a confession by anyone about illicit behaviour, especially if that behaviour resulted in harm to another, the priest should now concentrate his thoughts on helping the injured rather than giving atonement to the sinner.

In this case, even if the priest does not report the abuse to the authorities, which should be the number one thing on his mind, he should at least keep the keep an extremely short leash on the confessor and attempt to help the victim. Unfortunately, only half of that was done with the scandal over here. The pedo was not reported and instead of attempting some kind of rehabilitation, he was given a free pass to go minsiter elsewhere.

"If they did not confess, they would suffer unbelievable mental agony, and that would, hopefully, stop them from re-offending, a win-win situation."

Only those with a conscience and who absolutely felt what they did was wrong would have a chance of suffering. Bust too often, with the first time they get away with this crime they get confidence that they are safe. And that is when they do it again. After a while, they begin to justify it to themselves that they are in the right.

"I BELIEVE this is a result of a priest not being allowed to marry, which the bible does not say, its a rule the church invented.."

Steven, if only it were that simple, but realize that most of the child abusers are fathers who abuse their own children. These men have access to a legitimate sexual mate and still abuse their children. For a pedophile, an adult spouse does not end the problem.

Bob S.

[Guest]

Being celibate is not impossible since I've done it for many years because of my beliefs. There is absolutely NO excuse for child molestation or rape.

Also, the Catholic church may be A church, but they are not THE church. I'm not sure that any church has a monopoly on the truth. There's some truth in pretty much all of them. Unfortunately, some of them have very little truth. While I have no doubt that there are pedophiles (sp?) in all religions as well as schools, boy scouts, girl scouts, and any other place where children are, we seem to hear about it more in the Catholic religion. Why is that? Pedophiles will go wherever they can find children, into any profession, any church, any organization. Wherever there are a lot of children, that's where you will find the pedophiles, because they want to be near the children. It has nothing whatsoever to do with ANY of them being Christians, which they certainly aren't by any strtch of the imagination. It's a matter of pedophiles seeking out the children and going whereever they are. If the Catholic church has a lot of children, then that's where the pedophiles will go.

[Naturist Mark]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jon-Marc:
[qb]While I have no doubt that there are pedophiles (sp?) in all religions as well as schools, boy scouts, girl scouts, and any other place where children are, we seem to hear about it more in the Catholic religion. Why is that? [/qb]

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There aren't many child molesters in the Catholic Church. The vast majority are not. But it is very newsworthy when one is discovered. It is far more disturbing to the public because we expect a higher standard of priests. That is compounded when we were shocked to discover the church leadership hid the problem and allowed it to continue for far too long. A little league coach is a local scandal, a priest is national news. It is not at all surprising that after all the press it seems like the priesthood is rampant with sexual deviants. It isn't.

All that being understood, there is another side to this.

Consider a young man raised in the church. He believes its teachings. He begins to realize that his sexual feelings are not the normal sort the Church approves. He knows that to act on those feelings is a sin. To such a young man, a celibate life devoted to God would be the way to save his soul, do good in the world, and re-establish his own sense of worth. Because of the vow of celibacy, a religious vocation can be an attractive choice for devout Catholics who feel they are other than normal heterosexuals. Again, realize that most would never trespass, but there will always be a few who fail.

-Mark