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**Rik** · 11-26-2002, 07:11 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Jackie:
[qb]Are most european men uncircumcised.[/qb]

Yes it's quite rare for European men to be circumsized except for those who have it done for religous reasons. Very occasionally males have to have it done for medical reasons but virtually none have it done as a matter of course.

Most Europeans would agree that it seems barbaric to inflict circumcision on new born babies as there are absolutely no proven health benefits (just excuses and anecdotes).

Rik

**Jackie** · 11-26-2002, 07:47 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Rik:
[qb]
quote:
Originally posted by Jackie:
[qb]Are most european men uncircumcised.[/qb]
Yes it's quite rare for European men to be circumsized except for those who have it done for religous reasons. Very occasionally males have to have it done for medical reasons but virtually none have it done as a matter of course.

Most Europeans would agree that it seems barbaric to inflict circumcision on new born babies as there are absolutely no proven health benefits (just excuses and anecdotes).

Rik[/qb]

Thanks Rik, I really didn't realize this! The thing me and Nick did notice was that while there is probably no medical reason to 'Cut' a penis on a newborn it seems it is always done. While we were swimming the boys "Who had too much Ice Tea" had to pee allot. Instead of going into the house wet they decided to 'water' the bushes. We did notice the youngest having a bit of trouble pulling back his forskin to urinate. Nick said it is much easier if you are cut. Of course all men have a distincitive scar where the foreskin was.
Nick thinks his scar is ugly but really would have it cut than not. Rik are you cut ? Just curious? You don't have to answer if you don't want.

Oh yeah I guess you could pierce your foreskin if you have one. My French friends husband had it pierced at one time but not any more.

Also Nick was just wondering if it is common practice for a Nudist to 'Water' the bushes instead of using the bathroom. Nick thought that it was probably Ok for the young kids but didn't think it proper for grownups! He went in the house to go rather than just gettting out of the pool and using the bushes. What do you think ?
If it was just us Nick would have used the bushes as we sleep nude and use the bathroom toether all of the time. It is quite different when with company.

Jackie

**Rik** · 11-26-2002, 12:04 PM

I'm not sure circumcision is a naturist issue but I guess if you can't discuss it openly here then where can you? We've had debates about it before in these forums and opinion is very much divided.

As for me I am not circumcised. It certainly wasn't a conscious decision by my parents, it's just that in Europe routine circumcision has just never been on the agenda except, as I said, for some religious groups. Debates on this forum before have suggested that circumcision is practised widely in the US for hygiene reason with some people suggesting that 40 or 50 years ago it was essential because men just couldn't educate their offspring to clean themselves. It seems to me that vandalising the body of a newborn child is a pretty poor substitute for teaching hygiene. It is also suggested that circumcision helps to prevent penile cancer and one or two people have anecdotes about uncircumcised men getting cancer but as far as I am able to understand there is absolutely no proven link between penile cancer and foreskin. So with the weight of evidence against it, it seems outrageous to us Europeans that it still goes on to the extent it does in the US.

Does it look better? I don't know but if uncircumcised adult men feel it would then at least they have the opportunity to make the decision for themselves (but I have to confess I have never heard of a single person voluntarily having the operation for cosmetic reasons). On the other hand there are many circumcised men who resent the fact that they have been circumcised and there are now treatments available which can, in some cases, create a foreskin from what's left. But it looks a fairly painful and drawn out(literally [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] ) process.

In younger children the foreskin is very often "too big" and for some kids it can be difficult for them to retract the foreskin for cleaning (I've had 4 boys so I know these things). If they are unable to do it by the time they're about 5 then sometimes medical intervention is necessary and occasionally circumcision is the only answer to avoid the penis getting infected.

As they grow up, and certainly when they become sexually active, the foreskin moves very easily and in many men the urethra is exposed all the time because the penis has grown at a faster rate than the foreskin. Some men however have an oversized foreskin which some may consider unsightly but I don't really think it's that much of a problem - not for naturists anyway.

And peeing in the bushes? Well your friends were French and in France it's not unusual to see men peeing in the street. The French have a completely different attitude to bodily functions from Americans, British and indeed most other European and Scandinavian countries. Vive la difference!

Rik

**Brian** · 11-27-2002, 12:01 AM

Hi,

To ad my tuppence worth if I may, I am British, uncut and have alot of skin. I have thought of being cut since getting into Naturism as I felt at times that I was 'the odd one out'. I recently realised that my individuality is special and I have no medical reason for getting it done - so I wont. Also, I have had a few rather nice comments from others who have seen my pic (ladies from the USA) which helped my decision. My son, 4, is uncut also and we have no intention of getting him cut either.

Have fun and stay nude when you can!.

Brian.

**MaxUK** · 11-27-2002, 11:12 AM

Hi Jackie,

If I can add my voice, I am an uncut British guy and to be honest I am SO very glad not to have had the snip. This is for two reasons mainly:

1. Without going into too much detail, I could not imagine sex without the sensation of my foreskin moving over the head of my old chap, all nicely lubed up !! This would just not happen if I was circumcised - it would be all dry and nothing would move over anything else. No thank you !!

2. I just think it looks nicer and I don't feel 'robbed' in any way

Also - the argument that a circumcised man is 'cleaner' is clearly flawed - it depends on an individual's personal hygiene and nothing else. I keep myself scrupulously claen and have never had any problems (or complaints !!)

Max

**jeep** · 11-27-2002, 03:15 PM

To be frank,there is an atvantage to being cut .I can take a leak without thouching or pulling on it,yes i do go outside in my yard or off the deck .i find it quite natural.the obviouse atvantage to uncut is your end will be protected from sunburn ,also if size is a problem in your thinking the uncut appears to be bigger .this is a funny topic an i respond in laughter.enjoy your it.Jeep

**Jackie** · 11-28-2002, 03:35 AM

Hi All,

Thanks for all of you comments and observations. This is a great forum for nudists. I have another obersvation to add to this. I have watched my bf Nick who is cut pee many times. It seems much easier as there is no foresking in the way. By the way after we were all swimming in the pool we got out and went to the bathroom to shower before we got dressed to leave. The shower was huge and had no doors on it. Anyway the toilet is close by. As me and Nick were in the shower my friends husband (While waiting) for us to finish took a leak. He carefully pulled back his skin and urinated in clear view of us.

The skin seems like a problem. Nick does hate the scar left by the process but I do love to have his little helmet on view at all times and no foreskin in the way [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Love Jackie

P.S. I never had an UNCUT man for sex...

**David77** · 11-28-2002, 06:45 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Jackie:
[qb]
I have watched my bf Nick who is cut pee many times. It seems much easier as there is no foresking in the way.

my friends husband (While waiting) for us to finish took a leak. He carefully pulled back his skin and urinated in clear view of us.

The skin seems like a problem. [/qb]

No, no, the foreskin is no problem!

I may be exposing my ignorance, but I do not see why anyone would have to pull back their foreskin to urinate. I NEVER pulled back my extra long FORESKIN (I am referring to foreskin only) to urinate, and I have never noticed anyone pulling back their foreskin to urinate.

Contrary to what many women believe, men do not look down the row of urinals and see the other men urinating. The protocal is to keep looking straight forward. Invading another man's visual privacy of urinating can be interpreted as perversion. However, some urinals are visually wide open, and there was no awareness of pulling back the foreskin.

If I am wrong about anyone's absolute necessity to pull back the foreskin in order to urinate, I am sure that someone on this board will reply.

**Rik** · 11-28-2002, 07:36 AM

Whatever the advantages and disavantages, whether or not individuals are happy with their circumcision, the bottom line is that routine circumcision of infants, except where used to resolve specific medical issues, is a needless mutilation carried out on those who have no say in the matter.

As an analogy, imagine the outrage if parents decided to have their newborn children tattoed as a matter of course.

Rik

**Frank R** · 11-28-2002, 08:47 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Rik:
[qb]
As an analogy, imagine the outrage if parents decided to have their newborn children tattoed as a matter of course.

Rik[/qb]

There was talk a while back about tattoeing a child Social Security Number on them to avoid any mix ups at the hospital and later on in life to avoid identify fraud. Somewhat like the old SS troops had their blood types tattoed on their arms I guess. I sometimes what the latest bit of nonesense will be to allow the government to keep track of their "subjects" - subjects, not citizens mind you.

**Guest** · 11-28-2002, 05:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Jackie:
[qb]The skin seems like a problem. Nick does hate the scar left by the process but I do love to have his little helmet on view at all times and no foreskin in the way [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Love Jackie

P.S. I never had an UNCUT man for sex...[/qb]

I think the risks are too high to do it for cosmetic reasons. I've seen a few that were cut wrong and kinda mangled.

As for having sex with an uncut man I highly recommend it. You get the same penetration without all the friction so us women don't get sore like is possible with a cut man, which translates into being able to have sex longer and with less irritation. That extra skin does have more than one purpose. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

**Guest** · 11-28-2002, 05:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Rik:
[qb]Whatever the advantages and disavantages, whether or not individuals are happy with their circumcision, the bottom line is that routine circumcision of infants, except where used to resolve specific medical issues, is a needless mutilation carried out on those who have no say in the matter.

As an analogy, imagine the outrage if parents decided to have their newborn children tattoed as a matter of course.

Rik[/qb]

I usually use ears as an analogy. People usually use cleanliness as a reason for cutting. My point is that if that is so why not cut off their ears so they don't have to clean them. Alarming thought isn't it?

**nudelatinboyGA** · 11-30-2002, 10:14 PM

Chimming in a little late but I have to agree with cindiann and her ears analogy. I'm uncut and parents explained how important it was to clean the penis well while growing up. Never had problems! And Jackie, good thing for your boyfriend that now that you've seen both you prefer his way! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

**orienttropic** · 12-01-2002, 06:48 AM

so much of a debate about uncut or cut. I myself is cut. I have been to different nude resorts and mingled with mostly europeans who are of course uncut. I think the important thing is proper hygiene.

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