Men vs. women

[nudeinfl]

Why are there so many more male nudists then female nudists?

Some thoughts.

It's been argued that the reason is women don't feel safe around single men. Perhaps, but I feel its deeper than that.

I've talked to many non-nudist women about our lifestyle. For those who will not open their minds to it, the majority aren't against it because on moral grounds, right or wrong, or anything like that. The most common answer, "I couldn't because I don't have the body for it" (or something along those same lines).

Here's my conclusion. The American society pounds women into believing that looks are of the utmost importance. Beautiful supermodels grace magazine covers, t.v ads, and billboards. Girls as young as 11 are taught that they need to have an hourglass body. How many people really fit into this mode? A slim part of our society. Of course men are not exempt from this same training. The difference is that success/achievement is the barometer. Ever see the ads for the man who has it all, the house on the ocean, beautiful wife, and jaguar?

A man who is slightly overweight will typically not be as self conscience about his body as a woman in the same situation. This, I believe makes it easier for him to get naked in a mixed setting (once he gets over the length of his penis trip). Woman fear being judged not only by men, but by other women. Not exactly a mindset to inspire one to attempt social nudity.

I would love to hear comments from other members as to their views on this topic and maybe even some solutions.

[nudeinfl]

Why are there so many more male nudists then female nudists?

Some thoughts.

It's been argued that the reason is women don't feel safe around single men. Perhaps, but I feel its deeper than that.

I've talked to many non-nudist women about our lifestyle. For those who will not open their minds to it, the majority aren't against it because on moral grounds, right or wrong, or anything like that. The most common answer, "I couldn't because I don't have the body for it" (or something along those same lines).

Here's my conclusion. The American society pounds women into believing that looks are of the utmost importance. Beautiful supermodels grace magazine covers, t.v ads, and billboards. Girls as young as 11 are taught that they need to have an hourglass body. How many people really fit into this mode? A slim part of our society. Of course men are not exempt from this same training. The difference is that success/achievement is the barometer. Ever see the ads for the man who has it all, the house on the ocean, beautiful wife, and jaguar?

A man who is slightly overweight will typically not be as self conscience about his body as a woman in the same situation. This, I believe makes it easier for him to get naked in a mixed setting (once he gets over the length of his penis trip). Woman fear being judged not only by men, but by other women. Not exactly a mindset to inspire one to attempt social nudity.

I would love to hear comments from other members as to their views on this topic and maybe even some solutions.

[NuTex]

Nudeinfl,
You are so right. The media is full of the message "You can't be too rich or too thin". Yet at the same time everywhere we go we're asked to "super size" it. And we have Dr. Phil and his groupies running around attacking those who don't fit the Barbie doll image saying it's their fault and they should "get real", which puts the blame on the individual.

Our economic system gets us coming and going. It does everything it can to create an obese population while making people feel guilty when they do gain weight. Like the Pink Floyd song "Your Possible Pasts" which goes, "shown how to feel good and told to feel bad".

Why does this happen? One word: profit. There's profit in destroying people's health, profit in making them feel bad afterwards so they buy diet books and join weight loss programs, profit in keeping us ashamed of our bodies so we buy more clothes, and finally when we die young due to all of this there's profit to be made by the mortician.
NuTex

[melissastarr]

I think you are both correct. Each individual woman is different and therefore has different reasons for being or not being a nudist.

The American culture in which I live measures success differently for men and women. For men, it's what you earn or have that makes you a success. If you're good looking it's all the better, but it's not a requirement for your success. A woman, on the other hand, is a success if she looks good as defined by society. This means thin with some muscle (but not too much), a nice tan, perfect hair, and young-looking. Not many women fit in to that ideal and therefore consider themselves unsuccessful to a large degree. If your body is a failure- which, of course, means you are a failure- why would you want to show it? What we women often don't realize is that 1) having a 'perfect' body is simply an illusion and 2) few, if any, women have a body that we'd all consider 'good enough.'

Beyond this there is the moral issue. Men in our society are able to 'get away' with nudity more than women. Women who are nude are equated with prostitutes and sinful people. Men who are nude are just 'getting some,' which has no negative moral connotation. Men are more likely to exaggerate their sexual experiences to prove they are a stud while women will say nothing happened so noone thinks they're loose or a *****. These societal beliefs about sexuality taint women's ability to become nudists because nudism is equated with sexuality and, therefore, a female nudist is considered loose. If you'd like proof of this, simply go to the in-box of my e-mail. I'm a female and a nudist so I must be loose, right? Not!

Because of all these societal difficulties you'll find a bit of an imbalance at most nudist functions. Single women like myself can become intimidated at being one of the few women in a group of nude men. Especially when many of those men are single and actively looking for a partner. My own experience has been that I'm the only or one of the few single women at an event, usually the only single woman in my age group, and I'll have several single men my age coming to talk to me. It's not anything about me that brings them over except that I'm the right age, single, and female. At times this can be frustrating as I like female friends, too, and I'd like to have a girlfriend to talk with at times. (I'm not a lesbian, I just like to have friends my own gender... does that make sense?)

So those are my rather long-winded thoughts about this all. I have thought about this topic quite a bit as I've become more active in nudism.

Melissa

[shãybare]

The only thing I would like to add to that is you have said it very well.

[nudeM]

Just to reinterate on NuTex's comments, concerning profits, there is a national trend to sell items that will make us "look and feel better". Diets and excercising equipment, videos, etc., to give us those hard six-pack abs and body toning; products that will rid us of that unwanted body hair, products that will make the "baldness" go away (hair restoration), male enhancement products, the old "wonder bra" for that "uplifting" look as well as the bra that "lifts and separates", tanning lotions that gives is that "instant" tan.

Just a few items, but there are others out there that gives everyone the impression that our bodies aren't exactly perfect and they go out of their way to make you feel guilty. Profit making schemes are on the rise when it comes to body image.

I also tend to agree that males are more open to nudity much more so than females. There are a lot of males who don't wear underwear more so than females who don't wear bras, although that trend is also rising.

Just my two and a half cents worth. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

[nudeinfl]

I would take exception with one thing Melissa, the statement that nudity of men is more acceptable then women. My view is that Madison Avenue uses women more then men and will go to whatever limit that is allowed. Showing a female butt doesnt usually get a rise out of peole yet a male butt makes headlines. Couple that with the fact that men tend to be more visually stimulated and we find that female nudity is more prevelant, thus we are more immune to it. Finally, look at the art world. I'm no expert, but I believe that female nudes far outnumber male ones.

I do agree 100% with the fact that there are different standards sexually for men and women. Guys are cool if they have many conquests, women tramps.

[Naturist Mark]

Outside of nudist society I suspect female nudity is far more tolerated. A nude female may be an object of desire, certainly she is looked upon as vulnerable. A nude male is a threat, possibly a predator.

-Mark

[NuTex]

Melissastarr,
I just want to say how much you impress me. You're postings are always so well written and intelligent. And after visiting your web site how you've overcome so much is just amazing to me.

Never apologize for being "long-winded".

You are a wonderful, intelligent and beautiful person.
NuTex

[hm0504]

quote:

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Why are there so many more male nudists then female nudists?

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I guess that those who read my posts note that I often compare different societies (cultures) when considering a sociological question. On this one, based on my few trips to Europe, it seems to me there is no great difference between the numbers of male and female nudists there. If anything, it would almost seem to me there are often slightly more female (possibly because there are more females than males). One key aspect of this is the term "nudist". If one is in a culture where nudity is commonplace, the term nudist is nonsensical, rather like referring to someone who eats carrots as a carrotist (if almost everyone eats carrots, why bother having a special term for those who eat carrots).

No doubt a major issue in North American culture is that of safety, in all its various nuances.

[Elery]

I'm glad to see others recognizing that Melissa is a special person. She has overcome more obstacles to accepting herself as a valued and worthy person than most women would ever be burdened with. And in our still sexist society, just being female is enough of a obstacle to self worth in itself. That she has been able to open herself to the naturist life should be very inspiring to any woman to do like wise. Any of you fellows that have had trouble getting your lady to try out body freedom let them know what Melissa has done. Melissa, keep on the path you've come so far...you are guiding light. Lordy sounds like I'm sermonizing don't it? But it's true...

[Naturist Mark]

I am full of amazement and admiration for the way Melissa explored the possibilities of using nudism and body acceptance to improve her life, and how she persevered despite a less than stellar first experience.

She has also learned that young women, particularly single women, attract inordinate attention from the vast surplus of unaccompanied nudist men -yet hasn't blamed us all for the excess of a few (a few too many).

Melissa, don't forget to relax and enjoy yourself, don't let being an inspiration become a burden! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

-Mark

[Rex]

Ever since I got out of my first marriage many years ago, I,ve met lots of nudist minded women, but most of them were not openly into nudism.
As I've posted on another thread, most of them were at social dances.
It wasn't until I started reading the comments on this forum, that I realised that most men seem to find a problem meeting women with that kind of attitude.
I just thought the world must have a plentiful supply of women who would be happy to give nudism a try, provided they were with a man who would encourage them to feel safe, and treat them with respect.
After my first marriage, I had several lady friends who happily went to the free beach with me, and most of them I met at dances.
My second wife was already comfortable with nude swimming, and quickly became very comfortable with nude nearly everything.
I lost Kathy nearly two years ago, but forced myself, with a lot of difficulty, to go to dances on my own.
I found it was just the same, plenty of single women, and a fair number who would indicate they would be OK going to the free beach with me.
Of course, before this came into the conversation, they had to know this was one of my interests, but I'm open about this part of my life.
I have been very fortunate to meet a delightful lady [at a dance], who knows I sometimes get very emotional about Kathy, [all my friends know], but she is loving, understanding, and kind.
After her first visit to a free beach, her comment was, "An interesting new experience".
I'm not "silver tongued", or super-persuasive, I just think I socialise at the right places.

[melissastarr]

Thanks for all of the compliments, everybody. It's encouraging to be so loved and supported. I, like everybody, have my difficulties and go through hard times. Right now is a particularly hard time in my life so if you're a praying person, please lift me up in prayer. Sustaining life is hard right now.

To get back to the discussion at hand, I've thought a bit about the comment that nudity is more accepted for women than for men. On the one hand, I agree with this concept. Looking at art or in a magazine certainly supports this belief. However, if we analyze what kind of women are seen we will quickly realize that the women we see in art and in magazines are all models with nearly perfect figures (as perceived by the American public.) Male figures in art and magazines are the same way.

When we switch gears and look at nudism I think we do see a greater acceptance of male nudity over female nudity. For example, I was at a dinner with some colleagues when we got on the topic of swimming in an apartment complex's pool. I commented that I probably wouldn't use it and, when questioned, stated that I simply prefer skinnydipping. One of the people with us- a male- agreed wholeheartedly with my statement with a whoop. The other people in the group stared at me with open mouths and wonderment. Could it be because I'm female? When I think of skinnydipping I typically think of men. I would guess that society would be more ok with men skinnydipping than women. Perhaps not, but this is what it seems to me.
Melissa

[aunaturelone]

There is some tradition to skinnydipping being a male preogative. It was something girls did less off in frontier America. Norman Rockwell didn't paint nude girls running and carrying their clothes from a no swimming area. Tom and Huck and Jim weren't girls.

I think it has to do with the notion that a female body is an object of male sexual desire while a man's body is not one for "good" females. Heterosexual males who read about nude boys wouldn't be stirred up with lust like they would be by girls.

Also if being nude is a bordrline sexual experience then it was more "okay" for males to be nude than females, since "good" girls supposedly didn't experience much sexuality.

I don't think the tradition holds today. Many people believe the only reason to be nude socially is as a form of sexual advertisement. Don't even see many nudes in the locker room at the gymn any more. At the same time sexuallity is less constrained.

Why did Trish get nude in the Surreal Life but no guys? Because to her it was an acceptable form of sexual expression but for the guys it was not. (Nonsexual nudity would never occurr to them.) We live in a world where men are obsessed about getting girls out of their clothes but are insecure about their own nudity.

Reminds me of a scene in Fast Times at Ridgemont High. Originally it was "X" rated because of a brief frontal male nude which was edited out to satify the censors. OTOH Jennifer Jason Lee is totally nude frontally for several seconds a couple of time but the censors only think that's worth an "R".