Announcement

RT · 10-13-2002, 04:58 AM

Another posting by RT, putting his 5 penny's in this time. I didn't know what section to put this in so I fliped a coin.

I don't know how many of you have read, seen or heard about the bombs that went of in two night clubs in Bali but a lot of those killed would be mainy Australians.

Casey and I have close friends who are in Bali right now and I have been trying all day to find out if there OK. Last I heard all are OK but 2 very close friends, one a naturist. Talking to one of the parents a few hours ago they haven't heard anything but have listed him as missing with the Australian Embassy.

Well,on with my reason for this post. Why is it that we all can't get on in this world ? I'm not going to push my believes down anyones throat but why can't the rest of the world respect peoples believes and leave it at that ?

Sorry, I wanted to write more but I have tears in my eyes. Come on world lets have world peace by the year 2010. Bombing Iraq will not bring world peace in my eyes it will only make it worse !

RT signing out, I need to go for a run to calm down.

**Rik** · 10-13-2002, 06:19 AM

RT

I hope you hear good news about your friends soon.

World conflict is, in my view, partly about people's beliefs but more about commercial interest. It's about powerful individuals, corporations and countries trampling over anyone who gets in the way of profit. It's about killing people to secure oil reserves. It's also about ignorance, fear and suspicion of anyone who dares to think differently from us or live under different political systems.

It's also off topic so I won't go on.

Rik

**gamblefish** · 10-13-2002, 08:42 AM

I also hope your friends are ok, RT...they (and you) will be in my prayers.

Good post, Rik. I personally don't see world peace coming about through human effort. Not a lasting peace, anyway. Too much greed and corruption in high places. Too much selfishness and lack of concern for others.

I know that many believe that violence only begets violence, but I really don't think the Iraq problem is going to just go away on it's own.

"To everything...turn,turn,turn!!-A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace."-The Byrds...and Ecclesiastes.

**Bob S.** · 10-13-2002, 07:22 PM

: {

My prayers are with you, RT. I wish your friends well and pray that they made it through this cowardly act.

And World Peace will only come about when everyone starts working for it, not for their own agendas, but out of the selflessness of protecting others. When people start to see their foes as just people with differing opinons, not affronts to their own beleifs.

Religious views, cultural ideas, national interests, none of these are truly worth the price of human suffering or human life.

Bob S.

**Snoboy** · 10-14-2002, 02:16 PM

In times like these we must all stick together, half faith that God will comfort us and trust in our leaders to bring an end to the violence. My prayers are with you RT, your friends, and our nations. Be strong!

**Bartamus** · 10-14-2002, 06:00 PM

RT: I've been thinking about that horrible
bombing in Bali all day. I know I've already
shared by thoughts with you in a private e-mail,
but it goes without saying that all of us at INA
have your friends in our prayers.

As for an imminent military incursion against
Iraq, I could'nt agree more with your sentiments.
Americans by and large want to make doubly sure
that every effort is being made to make Saddam
Hussein comply with the UN before lives are lost.

**Oceanair** · 10-19-2002, 10:03 AM

I would like to point out that the longest time of peace was after we dropped the "A" bomb on Japan.

It is not the get along attitude that makes peace human nature does not work that way, you will always have someone or some country trying to gain some advantage.

PEACE comes from strength when the strength desires peace at all cost. The LIVE FREE OR DIE attitude.

For all of those who think we should not stop Saddam. It was him who attacked Kuwait. It was him who kicked out the inspectors. It was Klinton who did nothing and now we need to do something.

Live Free Or Die

**Bartamus** · 10-19-2002, 11:14 AM

Oceanair: You need a little refresher course on
American politics. Former President George HW Bush had a chance to go into Bagdad and do
something about Saddam following the Gulf War in
1991. He didn't do it.
It's always fun to blame President Clinton for
everything. But usual the right wingers are wrong!

**Bartamus** · 10-19-2002, 11:15 AM

Oops..I meant to say "as usual the right wingers
are wrong"

**Rik** · 10-19-2002, 11:51 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Oceanair:
[qb]I would like to point out that the longest time of peace was after we dropped the "A" bomb on Japan. ...Live Free Or Die[/qb]

Quote from http://studyguide.sundance.org/hiroshima/hiroshima.html

"On the ground, beneath the explosion center, called the hypocenter, the temperature rose to approximately 7,000 degrees F. The wind velocity at the hypocenter was 980 miles/hour, five times stronger than the wind generated by strong hurricanes, and air pressure was 8,600 pounds/square foot. This force destroyed most of the houses and buildings within a 1.5 mile radius from the hypocenter. The bomb also released a significant amount of radiation (Gamma ray and neutrons) that caused devastating human injuries. Within 1/16 mile radius from the hypocenter, most people died within a few hours (even if they had not been directly exposed to the heat or wind); within 1/2 mile radius, most people died within 30 days. The people who entered the area in the first 100 hours after the explosion were also affected by the remaining radiation on the ground. It is believed that more than 140,000 people died by the end of the year and the total number of people who have died due to the bomb is estimated to be 200,000.

Just three days after the bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, the second atomic bomb called "Fat Man" was dropped on Nagasaki. Though the amount of energy generated by Fat Man was significantly larger than that of Little Boy, the damage to Nagasaki was slighter than that to Hiroshima due to the geography of that city. It is estimated that approximately 70,000 people died by the end of the year because of the bombing of Nagasaki."

I guess it was a lasting peace for the 270,000 innocent people killed by the bombing of Japan.

Rik

**luvnaturism** · 10-19-2002, 12:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Oceanair:
[qb]I would like to point out that the longest time of peace was after we dropped the "A" bomb on Japan. [/qb]

I'm not quite sure what is meant by "the longest time of peace." Americans often think that we have world peace any time the US isn't actively engaged in combat.

The peace treaty with Japan that ended WWII was signed in Tokyo Bay on September 2, 1945. The North Koreans invaded South Korea on June 25, 1950. Even by the most extremely limited definition of peace (US not fighting anyone), the peace following the use of atomic weapons did not even last 5 years. This is by no means the longest such period in our history.

During that same 5 years the Chinese resumed the civil war that had been largely suspended due to the occupation of China by Japan, resulting in the Communist victory in that country. Various other armed conflicts were going on elsewhere.

But the US had nearly 5 years of peace, right? Not really. Following WWII we were thrust immediately into a 40-year struggle with Russian communism. Sometimes it was a Cold War, tense and costly, but without shooting. Sometimes the two nations played out their struggle on some third-world stage where shooting was going on (Afghanistan). The paranoia that flowed from this conflict led us into Vietnam, a major shooting war. Once it nearly led to the destruction of much of earth as place suitable for human habitation (Cuba).

We thought the tensions had finally eased with North Korea, but look where we suddenly are today.

So I think the most we say about peace following the use of atomic bombs is that it ended an all-out struggle to the death and opened the way to a different form of warfare.

Lest I be characterized as belonging to one camp or another, let me add that after careful study of the war with Japan I became convinced that the use of atomic weapons was justified by the extraordinary circumstances that prevailed at the time, and that the result was that not only were a million or more US casualties averted, but the number of additional Japanese casualties that were averted was likely in the tens of millions.

But do I think that translated into a grand era of peace? It did no such thing.

**TXK NUDE** · 10-20-2002, 04:47 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Bartamus:
[qb]Oceanair: You need a little refresher course on
American politics. Former President George HW Bush had a chance to go into Bagdad and do
something about Saddam following the Gulf War in
1991. He didn't do it.
It's always fun to blame President Clinton for
everything. But usual the right wingers are wrong![/qb]

Actually, Bart, you are wrong...I don't want to start an argument here, but you rhave your information skewed slightly by the American media. I served in the military during the early days of Desert Shield (the precursor to Desert Storm) and I know that it was ALWAYS President Bush's goal to completely remove Saddam from power. However, the powers that be, a Democratic Congress, and a liberal and unsupportive UN tied his hands. Rather than being a decisive victory and an action done because it was "the right thing to do", it became a political statement, and a nightmare that I believe caused Bush to lose his re-election campaign to "Wishy-Washy" Willy Clinton.
Again,Congress recently attempted to tie Dubya's hands with this "War of Terrorism", and debated long and hard on whether or not to let the president use 'whatever force was necessary' to combat the evil regime in the middle east. The only difference this time is that 9/11 wasn't aimed at some small oil producing monarchy off the coast of the Indian Ocean...it was aimed at the Twin Towers and the Pentagon, and possibly even the White House--in other words, America. And where "doing the right thing" for Kuwait was political suicide for his father, "doing the right thing" for America is sending Dubya's ratings through the roof. Even Congress recognizes that, and they don't want to bite the political bullet in November because they didn't support the president's campaign to rid the world of evil men like Saddam--Ben Ladin--etc.

**Naked Bob 2** · 10-20-2002, 07:33 AM

I was there in 91 and it looks like I will be going back there again soon. We knew then that the job wasn't finished and that we would be back.

It is an easy thing to get a man to go to war the first time, the tough part is getting him to go back again. I don't like our prospects this time.

So as someone who may soon have to face the horrors of chemical and biological war I am slightly biased in my opinion. I would rather not go. I would rather stick to the same old bullets and bombs etc. But when he does use these hideous weapons, he had them on the gunline ready to fire in 91. I hope we will unleash all the fury and rath at our disposal, i.e. nuke the bastard!

Once the ball is rolling it may be hard to stop.

**Frank R** · 10-20-2002, 07:51 AM

A lot of what I would call "nonsense" has been posted about wars and "world peace" and let's at least remember some points many people tend to overlook. Hitler wanted world peace more than anything. He even went to war to impose his idea of world peace on everyone else. The people in slave labor camps in Red China are at peace since there is no war going on. When people talk about "world peace," you need to make sure you understand what they mean. To communist, world peace means no resistence to communism. To Hitler, it meant no resistence to Nazism. Peace is very easy to obtain. All you need due is surrender to the biggest thug who wants to take over and you can have peace. Anyone who has a good knowledge of history and current world affairs knows the main purpose of the United Nations today is to impose the kind of world peace George Orwell foresaw - "Visualize a boot stomping on a human face forever. Visualize World Peace."

Announcement

World Peace ?

World Peace ?

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment